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I think I know why you can't hire engineers right now

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Re: I think I know why you can't hire engineers right now

#521

Post by gyulai »

Companies nowadays seem to have a fixed expectation that if they're not rejecting 99 candidates for every candidate they hire, they are somehow not doing it right.

Looking at it from the candidate's point of view: Being rejected is actually something that psychologically kind of sucks a lot. Even if at the level of higher cognition you are perfectly aware that it's just a numbers game, and that you shouldn't let rejection get to you in a psychological way, we are not vulcans but humans. Rejection means cognitive dissonance in a big way: You applied for the job, so that means you wanted it. But they rejected you, so that means that you're not getting it. It's also a threat to your identity, because you think of yourself as being pretty good, and now there's someone who thinks you're not good enough for them. It just sucks.

So what do you do? You engage in cognitive dissonance reduction. You look at that recruiter spam, and you immediately start looking for reasons not to apply. Because if you find any reason not to want the job, then they can't hurt you by not giving it to you.

Recruiting is broken in a big way: We need to find ways of doing it that causes much less psychological friction.

Re: I think I know why you can't hire engineers right now

#522

Post by [deleted] »

hguant wrote: post #8

There comes a point where the money just isn't a motivating factor anymore, and companies are struggling to figure out how to work in that environment. This bit from the author hits the nail on the head: >Is an extra $10k per year worth learning a new org, a new skillset, a new set of expectations, a new set of coworkers, and a new boss? For many engineers, the answer is: “No.” Yes I could quit and get a ~20k raise b…

[deleted]

Re: I think I know why you can't hire engineers right now

#523

Post by Cthulhu_ »

schmookeeg wrote: post #62
Waterluvian wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. Why would I skip the recruiter and apply directly unless the recruiter is a non-helpful middleman? I’d love to have a direct contact to negotiate the whole process.

If you have ever met a recruiter who was NOT an unhelpful middleman, I'd love to meet them. My spam folder is filled daily with dozens of body-shop spammers with 50-point scrabble names offering me jobs I don't do in places I won't live for money I haven't made since I quit my newspaper route in college. It's maddening and has been very consistent throughout my career. I've toyed with the idea of finding a for-fee re…

> (I know, first world diva problems, sigh... it's still grating though)

The fact that there seem to be more recruiters than competent developers sometimes tells me a diva status is deserved.

The thing is, a recruiter's pay can easily be 10K per placed candidate. Looking at my current pay, that means they only need to place a handful of people a year to earn as much as I do.

Re: I think I know why you can't hire engineers right now

#524

Post by ed_elliott_asc »

Isn’t it just as simple as the Faang’s are sucking up as many people as they can and every other company is expanding their tech teams so a) there are fewer people and b) there are more jobs?

This is the first time in my career that I’m happy to finish a contract without having another with paperwork all signed as I know I can get another one with the minimum of effort.

This makes life a lot less stressful and less likely to put up with nonsense, I am alot less stressed tbh.

Re: I think I know why you can't hire engineers right now

#525

Post by em500 »

aeternum wrote: post #373
carabiner wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People have been bitching about LC interviews for 10 years. That's eons in tech, yet companies continue to use it. Maybe, because it works extremely well? Tech companies are taking it in more every year.

Depends on how you define works. It does effectively filter the people that can't code, but it also filters a lot of people that can code and just can't or don't care to do it under time or environment pressure. In the past that was fine, candidate pool was large enough that a heavy-handed filter was okay. That may be changing.

Every job related thread on HN devolves into a bitch fest about interview questions. I don't know how it works at non-FAANGS, but Google gets literally millions of applications per year, and even the maligned FB gets a few hundred thousands. I have yet to hear any workable alternative hiring process that can cope with such volumes. At these companies, the hiring probability for most individuals must by necessity be very low, no matter what kind of interview/hiring process you'd suggest.

Re: I think I know why you can't hire engineers right now

#526

Post by weatherlite »

pjmlp wrote: post #311
pattusk wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not disagree with your take, but I think you may only be speaking for a subset of engineers that are already fairly well compensated. The article likewise seems to discard the importance of money in favor of three other more immaterial factors, but I do not think this is representative of the situation of the global job market right now. I also think such a perspective can not fully explain the difficulties that…

> Over in Europe and East Asia, $50 to $60k salaries are the norm Yes, and we have plenty of nice stuff that goes along with it Healthcare, 30 paid holidays, unions, paid overtime, weekends and calls off work come extra (it is 40h week period, want more pay for it), retirement, flex time, ... Like the OP, my expenses are more than covered, getting more isn't worth the hassle to change. Ah, and in some countries havin…

I'm not saying software devs have it necessarily bad in Europe, but a talented individual in Europe is better off doing something in finance (accountant, tax advisor), medicine or law. The salaries will be better, the work more appreciated, and probably better job security. The fact that giving options is so rare in Europe is mind blowing for such a so called socialist continent. It's actually the U.S who is socialist for its tech workers.

Re: I think I know why you can't hire engineers right now

#527

Post by dt3ft »

Der_Einzige wrote: post #39
reikonomusha wrote: post #29

Purely anecdotal: In my experience as a hiring manager seeing trends change over the past 10 years, and selecting from the top 10% of candidates by some vague metric, it's primarily about "does it pay a lot" and secondarily "does it offer full-remote"? A lot of my friends, former colleagues, and candidates I've failed to hire end up going to either a FAANG or a very successful brand-name company (typically a SV compa…

I was looking for this comment. The OP and the current top comment seem to think that many engineers wouldn't jump for 10-20K increases. While that is true if they are in a good role, many salary increases from jumping are high double digits right now. Compensation, WLB, and benefits matter FAR FAR more for the majority of people than "good projects" or "smart colleagues". If you want those and can't get it in your j…

I refused a 30k increase due to a bad commute.

Re: I think I know why you can't hire engineers right now

#528

Post by weatherlite »

danbmil99 wrote: post #446
gdcbe wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dunno where you live but in Belgium: - That salary certainly does seem realistic, even though I'm on the higher end and have a base salary above that; - I also get the same amount of paid holidays, might be even a couple more; - we have great hospitality insurance, mutuality (general health care) has to be paid by ourselves however, even though that's cheap; - they do help me save for pension in the form of a contrib…

Not rainbows -- FAANG are out-bidding startups at every level. If you have a modicum of talent and a flair for interviews, they will gladly buy your soul for $250k/year + bennies from heaven.

Hmm a modicum of talent? It's pretty hard to get in. Doesn't necessarily take talent but it sure helps. Either that or the willingness and ability to grind out so many interviews you actually become good at it. Whatever the case not everyone is capable or event want to go through with it. And its not as if FAANG are a good representation of the industry, maybe 5% of devs work there?

Re: I think I know why you can't hire engineers right now

#529

Post by netizen-936824 »

tforcram wrote: post #9
netizen-936824 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly neuralink is a bigger joke than his other projects. Maybe it will go somewhere but its highly improbable, we simply don't understand the brain well enough to make an input/output device meaningful yet

Wouldn't trying to interface with the brain be a good way to understand more about it? It does sound unlikely that neuralink actually accomplishes anything impressive, but I don't think it's a joke to try and maybe it will be a step towards something that does succeed.

That's why I said maybe it will go somewhere. Its super unlikely though, because I don't think they're doing any of the actual basic research. They're relying on the results out of academia and then just tinkering with that info. It's definitely possible for them to stumble onto something interesting

Re: I think I know why you can't hire engineers right now

#530

Post by ChuckNorris89 »

richrichardsson wrote: post #495
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>30 paid holidays I'm always angered by these over-generalizations for the whole of Europe. Europe is not a single country with identical laws and working conditions but they differ wildly by borders. The minimum amount of vacation days by EU law is 20 per year for every full-time worker in the EU but workers can get more based on union negotiations of each individual country or individual company perks that wish to…

> unrestricted immigration The effect of immigration on wages is overblown. https://fullfact.org/immigration/immigration-wages/

How so?

If you have more people competing for the same job, then the wages go down, and vice-versa, the less potential employees you have, the higher the wages have to go to fill the position.

The supply/demands fraction is basic math. Are you saying math doesn't work?

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