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Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

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Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#521

Post by arrrg »

moistrobot wrote: post #434
arrrg wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s wrong information. Twice-vaccinated people will have to get a booster shot and there are discussions about a six month expiry date if you don’t get the booster shot. What happens beyond that we do not know right now since can’t look into the future. We do not know how effective the booster will be in terms of long-term protection. All of that is not surprising. A bit annoying but not surprising.

if it's the same shot as the originals, which is my understanding, then it's reasonable to assume a similar expiry

No, not at all. That’s not at all how it works.

Other vaccinations are also given three times (second dose after a short interval, third dose after a longer interval), so it might well be that this vaccine turns out to be one of those, we just do not know. That’s the point.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#522

Post by throw8965 »

Additional problem is that when doctors that are against mass vaccinations (like inventor of the mRNA vaccine) want to debate no-one mainstream want to talk with them besides anti-vaxxers[0][1].

[0]: https://stevekirsch.substack.com/p/my-team-of-vaccine-safety... [1]: https://stevekirsch.substack.com/p/wed-love-to-have-a-debate

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#523

Post by dham »

est31 wrote: post #264
locallost wrote: post #127

As a foreigner living in Germany I could live with it if there were otherwise sound measures, but it's mostly been a bunch of wishful thinking. There was a rush last summer to open everything up despite it being relatively clear it was way too early and a lot of people really understood it as "corona is over". Even this I could understand, but this year they do the same thing again! Surprise, surprise that there is a…

Germany had elections at the end of September, and I feel that this is the main reason for the catastrophy that is unfolding now. It has prevented the ruling parties from imposing stricter vaccination requirements more early on. They could have easily required everyone to be vaccinated by November first, and this current situation would have been spared. Now the government still has to do it, but they need to rush it…

Everyone will get this virus. Countries that do good now will do bad later and countries that did bad now we do good later. It's all inevitable. All you can do is take it on the chin or delay it. Every country has predetermined number based on their population demographics and health, that they will hit and there's no thing we can do about it.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#524

Post by rbanffy »

generalizations wrote: post #94
lillecarl wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the risk of transmission is understood to be significantly lower, and since unvaccinated people are more likely to cause the virus to mutate it's in the governments best interest to get people vaccinated, a way of accomplishing this could be making life inconvenient for the uncompliant.

> since unvaccinated people are more likely to cause the virus to mutate We might get more mutations from unvaccinated people, but since the vaccine doesn't prevent transmission we'll get much more virulent mutations from the vaccinated people.

Hence the need to isolate the unvaccinated, to protect them so they don’t get these new breeds and don’t make new ones based on them that reinfect the larger population.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#525

Post by cbozeman »

timdaub wrote: post #399
worik wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that everybody should get vaccinated. Let's make this virus extinct. But what you describe is majoritarianism. It is a form of democracy but a very weak form. For a lot of people, who are from minority groups, it is indistinguishable from totalitarianism. Why do 30% of people refuse to get vaccinated? (here in Aotearoa it is 5%). Something is happening, people are getting left behind, in vast numbers. Forcing…

No, it's not totalitarian. In Germany we have a constitution that protects all human's right equally. If there's good reasons why you can't receive a vaccination, I'm pretty sure nobody can force you. Not even the state. Go to your doctor to get an attest that exempts you from the mandatory vaccination. Nothing easier than that in Germany. And again: You are just speculating. Nobody knows if a vaccine mandate leaves…

Given Germany's track record on human rights, you'll forgive me I don't believe you... or your government.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#527

Post by nzk »

stefan_ wrote: post #316
nzk wrote: post #47

What we're seeing here is one of the wealthiest countries in the world with a population of > 80M people crumbling over a few thousand ICU patients because of long-standing issues that were never addressed. The staffing problems in hospitals (and nursing homes) have existed much longer than Covid. I heard a lot about them myself when I did my FSJ (volunteer work) back in 2004, and it's only gotten worse since then. O…

Is this the ventilator fallacy? You know, it's march 2020, and everyone is rushing to make more of those damn ventilators? If you end up on a fucking ventilator in an ICU bed, the damage is long done . The goal is not to maximize the number of people we can have on ventilators. That is an absurd idea on the same level of the "natural immunity is better than the vaccine!" insanity we got in 2021.

No, it's not the goal. The goal is also not to split society in two and create a group that'll hate everyone forever, just because our leaders can't own up to their mistakes. The goal is to get through the pandemic best we can, and keeping societal values and principals intact should be an important part of that.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#528

Post by native_samples »

igorkraw wrote: post #447
throwaway47292 wrote: post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think the % of unvaccinated would stay the same next year? My gut feeling is that it will increase, every 6 months when the new booster is needed we will get more and more people not wanting it. How long until the unvaccinated are more than the vaccinated? 18 months? What happens when they are the majority and ban all vaccines?

In that fantasy world they'd still need to provide evidence that the ban us justified, otherwise people can challenge it in court. The vaccine people have the "benefit" of a collapsing medical system and am absence of a similar load and collapse in countries with high vaccination rate.

Why? No evidence is needed that vaccine mandates are justified, as if evidence were required it'd fail immediately given the low and falling efficacy, that vaccines are individual protection so it doesn't matter what other people do, and given that hospital capacity is the problem of the hospital providers to solve and not their customers (this is fairly basic).

But hey, if you disagree with that last bit and think hospital staffing is everyone's problem, be aware that this sword cuts in both directions. It actually makes it super easy to argue for banning vaccines. Here's the argument they'll use:

1. Vaccines aren't entirely safe. They can cause blood clots, strokes, heart attacks and many other kinds of injury.

2. The injured end up in hospital, consuming medical system capacity which takes it away from the people who opted out and didn't take the vaccines. Possibly for life, in some cases.

3. This is selfish because many of the people who took vaccines and got injured are young and weren't at any meaningful risk of COVID. They did it to themselves despite knowing there were risks, because they were incorrectly scared, or authoritarian, or whatever, but now society has to take care of them anyway.

4. And in addition the unvaccinated are now almost all recovered, and they have natural immunity for life. The vaccinated on the other hand, are now dependent on endless booster shots which not only injure new people on every round but are also are extremely expensive and taxing on the healthcare provisioning system, meaning less resources available for everyone else. Proof: the UK has just started cancelling operations to free up healthcare resources for booster shots!

Thus, the vaccinated are a drain on the healthcare system and should have their freedom to choose endless boosters removed - or at the very least, they should be forced to pay for them themselves (and any subsequent healthcare issues they experience).

You may not like the above argument (I don't!) but it is not fundamentally different to the ones being deployed in this thread. And if the unvaccinated become the majority, as may easily happen given that vaccinated people will constantly be joining them as their status expires, then nothing in theory stops such an argument being made (although in reality the public health establishment would never go along with it).

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#529

Post by Invictus0 »

atsaloli wrote: post #442

I was born in Soviet Russia, where the party line was: there is no God, there is no Soul, there is no Truth, and truth is what we tell the people. My family came to America to get away from that savage society and to live in a free country, based on voluntary cooperation (free market) not force and violence and coercion. In communism, the group is all and the individual is nothing. I do not believe it is okay to viol…

The legality of the government forcing a medical procedure for the common good been decided by the supreme Court nearly 100 years ago. There is no specific "liberty" that is being violated here.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#530

Post by timdaub »

chippy wrote: post #449
timdaub wrote: post #369

I find it ironic that there are plenty comments that paint the picture of how mandatory vaccinations divide the country. Hello? Have you been awake for the last month? How much more divided can a country already be when the absolute democratic majority has made their decision months ago to take the shot but 30% are holding everyone back. Anyone in my family or from my friends that has taken one for the team (and got…

Its worth remembering that division is due to the other side always . This is an absolute statement as division is literally caused by dividing between "sides". You get a divided country when the people within it divides each other into sides. Its never been the case when people have said "our side has caused the division". never. That is the irony you should be finding! If you do finally see this irony you might fin…

And how exactly does this statement now help to address the situation?
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