Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

sfmayor.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

521–530 of 893 posts

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#521

Post by r00fus »

brianwawok wrote: post #385
mceachen wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least in CA, if you opt out of COBRA, you can't opt back in later.

Hum. In IL and IN you have either 45 or 60 days to accept or decline coverage (don’t quote me on exact number, do the research). It made the optimal short term insurance policy to be: Don’t fill out cobra paperwork to day 59 If not sick or total bills less than 2 months cobra payments, decline cobra. If sick and total bills > 2 months cobra payments, decide to accept coverage. Used this for like 5 job hops. Never had…

I think your heuristics change if you happen to have an ongoing condition or family needing coverage (who may also happen to have costly out-of-coverage costs).

This is the kind of mental gymnastics that would be completely avoided if we had even the most basic of universal coverage.

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#522

Post by ikiris »

exhilaration wrote: post #316
maerF0x0 wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any suggestions on which they do frequent?

Reddit. My state's subreddit has a massive discussion about how the unemployment system is failing, completely unable to handle the enormous number of people trying to file claims. There's a lot of desperation in those threads.

They have a great opportunity to make things better come Nov now that they've been affected by the failling.

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#523

Post by mynameishere »

jliptzin wrote: post #498
hombre_fatal wrote: post #4

I'm lucky enough to have remote work. And I'm sure many HNers have a nice buffer of savings from their tech jobs to weather the storm or are getting paid time off. But can anyone share what it's like to not be in either of these situations? How are your rent lords handling things? I live abroad in a cheap country so I can handle zero income, but I wouldn't be able to last long if rent was $2000+/mo instead of the Yet…

Yea I am wondering the same thing. I am REALLY lucky to have saved a lot and be in a good living situation where I can quarantine comfortably. But what the hell are people doing who were paycheck to paycheck? I would not blame them if they had to start stealing from supermarkets

REALLY lucky to have saved a lot

Luck might play a role in whether you got a good job, but saving money is mostly a product of willpower.

I would not blame them if they had to start stealing from supermarkets

Would you blame them if they stole $15/pound steak instead of $0.20/pound bags of flour? Because few people steal bags of flour--that is, few people steal food for purposes of preventing starvation. It's mostly driven by the same impulse as any other form of stealing.

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#524

Post by r00fus »

toasterlovin wrote: post #423
plorkyeran wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The rates staying flat rather than going up is already a success, not a sign that SIP has failed.

But if the rates stay the same, then all we're accomplishing is slowing the rate at which we reach herd immunity. If herd immunity is the strategy we're pursuing, then we should lift restrictions enough to meet hospital capacity, so we can get to herd immunity as quickly as possible and get the economy back to something approaching normal levels of activity. If the strategy is actually suppression and elimination, th…

Herd immunity? Is it proven that immunity lasts long enough to provide coverage to the herd?

The issue I have is that if we overload our medical system - just go on twitter to see the horror stories posted about ICUs and medical staff in serious depression - then even if you have a totally managable non-COVID acute issue, you could get infected or die by lack of treatment because the system is at or beyond capacity.

We are in a fight to keep our current medical system running. If you overload it recovery for that may take longer than the hypothetical herd immunity or vaccine.

For curves: Flat = working. exponential = not working.

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#525

Post by vkou »

usaar333 wrote: post #424
blast wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a class divide, unfortunately. The people who are getting hit hardest are the people who were already getting hit hardest. Most of those don't frequent the same internet forums we do.

It's an incredible class divide: * Essential workers (who make less) required to work and get infected at higher rates, both at work and from their essential worker housemates. * We permit anyone (even non-essential workers) to hire a nanny, but let no one drop their kid off at a friend's house. * Deep pocketed businesses like Broadcom can just declare themselves an essential business and mandate employees perfectly…

> * We permit anyone (even non-essential workers) to hire a nanny, but let no one drop their kid off at a friend's house.

This is hyperbole. The KGB isn't going to come and arrest you if you do so.

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#526

Post by numpad0 »

khazhoux wrote: post #394
blast wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a class divide, unfortunately. The people who are getting hit hardest are the people who were already getting hit hardest. Most of those don't frequent the same internet forums we do.

This is why "We're in this together" is just not true. Oprah has it better than me right now. But we both have it way better than my hairdresser (who knows if her salon will survive). And all three of us have it better than a Silicon Valley janitor. I'm filled every day with deep, deep sadness for everyone whose refrigerators are running out with their bank account at zero.

I don’t see hairdressers as a trade no longer viable, after all they were considered medical experts until late 19th/early 20th century.

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#527

Post by r00fus »

greendave wrote: post #408
greendude29 wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The problem is that the shelter-in-place rule is already limited in effectiveness I've mostly read that the "control" we have over covid-19 now is due to the SIP. Can you source your claim?

Perhaps badly worded on my part. Limited != none. Clearly SIP has bent the curve. But new cases that are being reported now were transmitted well after SIP came into effect, i.e. are happening despite SIP. And absent other policy changes, we should continue to expect to see more of them. What changes we do see are in the other direction - more traffic, more outside activity, etc. Practically, increase (or non-decreas…

To expect the cases to go down is not realistic. We're in a battle to prevent exponential growth. NlogN is managable. N^2 is not.

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#528

Post by usaar333 »

vkou wrote: post #525
usaar333 wrote: post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's an incredible class divide: * Essential workers (who make less) required to work and get infected at higher rates, both at work and from their essential worker housemates. * We permit anyone (even non-essential workers) to hire a nanny, but let no one drop their kid off at a friend's house. * Deep pocketed businesses like Broadcom can just declare themselves an essential business and mandate employees perfectly…

> * We permit anyone (even non-essential workers) to hire a nanny, but let no one drop their kid off at a friend's house. This is hyperbole. The KGB isn't going to come and arrest you if you do so.

Legal enforcement is weak but it is absolutely against the rules (I actually verified this with the health office) and social pressure (neighbors, each other) encourages parents to comply.

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#529

Post by treis »

Enginerrrd wrote: post #443
toasterlovin wrote: post #423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But if the rates stay the same, then all we're accomplishing is slowing the rate at which we reach herd immunity. If herd immunity is the strategy we're pursuing, then we should lift restrictions enough to meet hospital capacity, so we can get to herd immunity as quickly as possible and get the economy back to something approaching normal levels of activity. If the strategy is actually suppression and elimination, th…

There's also the goal of slowing down and stalling in hopes of getting a vaccine, better treatments, production to catch up with supply shortages for healthcare facilities, and allowing healthcare facilities to increase capacity, etc.

Barring a miracle, mass production of a vaccine is at least 9 months away. Likely more like a year+

There's no better treatments coming. We've been fighting viral pneumonia since the dawn of medicine and the tool kit is pretty sparse. Finding anything nearing a cure or even a 20% improvement is wishful thinking.

Our health care capacity is adequate. NYC got to ~30% infected and while I'm sure none of the medical workers want to repeat the experience the level of care remained good. Any capacity increase is going to come with only marginally improved outcomes.

There's no purpose in extending the lockdown. Either we can get back to something resembling normal life and control the spread or we can't and everyone gets infected. Extending the lockdown is just delaying that day of reckoning.

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#530

Post by vkou »

usaar333 wrote: post #528
vkou wrote: post #525

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> * We permit anyone (even non-essential workers) to hire a nanny, but let no one drop their kid off at a friend's house. This is hyperbole. The KGB isn't going to come and arrest you if you do so.

Legal enforcement is weak but it is absolutely against the rules (I actually verified this with the health office) and social pressure (neighbors, each other) encourages parents to comply.

Your neighbours must be incredibly shitty people, then. I think the problem in this case are not the rules, but the neighbours.

As for against the rules, so is going over 60 on an interstate... Yet four fifths of my regular morning commute would be doing it. Back when I had one.

Post reply on HN