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We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage

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Re: We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage

#521

Post by bob33212 »

nell wrote: post #494

Let's assume pay is the only parameter in a job offer. Also assume Big tech (FANG) set the ceiling for software engineer salary. These companies hire every engineer that meet their criteria. Most engineer given an offer from one of them would accept it since that is the highest possible offer they can get. If there is no talent shortage, these companies should have no open recs or fill them as soon as they're opened…

Think about an ugly, unemployed dude with a bad attitude and bad personality saying that there is a shortage of girls in the dating pool who meet his attractiveness standards.

He is technically correct, the number of attractive ladies who want to date him is much lower than the number of dates he is available to go on.

But no one is going to be sympathetic to that shortage, why should anyone be sympathetic to this one.

Re: We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage

#522

Post by droithomme »

sidlls wrote: post #426
bufferoverflow wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US salaries are on a whole new level when it comes to senior programmers. $200K+ base is normal, if you're good. $150/hr for consulting gigs is also normal if you're good. So your $5K after taxes wouldn't even register on my radar.

These are not normal base salaries even for senior programmers in the bay area. The 60th percentile for senior software engineers is around $180k per year in the Bay Area. Total compensation is commonly $200k or more, easily, but not base. Outside of the Bay Area, even in NY, Chicago, etc., base salaries are lower. In most places they're much lower--below $100k.

His statement that:

> $150/hr for consulting gigs is also normal if you're good.

Is fairly ridiculous.

I was pulling in that rate in 1995 for hourly consulting. Now in 2019 anyone competent as an independent expert in a specialized field should be pulling down $600/hr at a minimum. You'd be a fool to work for less. Sounds like this guy is simply not all that.

Re: We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage

#523

Post by [deleted] »

burtonator wrote: post #5

I had a recruiter call me a year ago with what sounded like a really amazing offer. Working for a well funded startup on a problem in which I happen to be a domain expert. They're aren't many expects in my field with my background and skill set and they said the right things to get me to interview (compensation won't be a concern). Anyway... Went in for 4-5 interviews. Took me about 10 hours in total to interview wit…

[deleted]

Re: We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage

#524

Post by technion »

rubicon33 wrote: post #208

I feel like a broken record, but I'm going to say it anyways. There is NOT a shortage of software developers. That myth was developed by big tech, and pushed all the way up the ladder, to the top of government. The goal? Reduce labor costs. Big tech has always been 1 step ahead of the employee, just like coal, and metal working was. They saw the huge need for developers and realized their costs would increase unless…

I'll say the same thing about security people. There's an executive who's been whining on LinkedIn about the major skills shortage in this area. Here's an ad his company put up. I've had it confirmed every individual line is non-negotiable.

https://imgur.com/a/UX5wPDB

Re: We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage

#525

Post by pedrosorio »

neffy wrote: post #505
daemontus wrote: post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't forget it's 200k a year whereas the EU salary is 5k per month - still way below, but as op said: once you factor in the cost of living, it starts to make more sense :)

Not to mention we get free health care and decent holidays with that. A 7 weeks holiday allowance has more than a monetary allowance.

> Not to mention we get free health care

The (many) issues with US health care do not affect upper/middle class professionals.

From a "patient perspective", as long as you are employed as a software engineer in SV, health care is not a concern at all (insurance is covered by the employer). If anything, it is superior to anything I experienced in Europe.

Re: We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage

#526

Post by systemBuilder »

refurb wrote: post #377
burtonator wrote: post #5

I had a recruiter call me a year ago with what sounded like a really amazing offer. Working for a well funded startup on a problem in which I happen to be a domain expert. They're aren't many expects in my field with my background and skill set and they said the right things to get me to interview (compensation won't be a concern). Anyway... Went in for 4-5 interviews. Took me about 10 hours in total to interview wit…

Same thing happened to me. Exciting company, leadership opportunities, etc. The asked how much I was looking for, I told them X, which was 25% more than I was getting now and on the high-end for a similar role. They say ok. Interview goes great, everyone loves me, offer time. They offer me X-20%. WTF? That’s basically what I’m making now and they didn’t offer big company perks like 401k match, stock grants, etc. So i…

You really need to ghost a company like that.

Re: We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage

#527

Post by toomuchtodo »

cardine wrote: post #454
toomuchtodo wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why is it your choice to make? It's not my choice. It's the technology industry's collective choice to decide how welcoming the technology industry is to newcomers. I hope you have a more compelling argument than, "It's not fair." Life ain't fair; people have mortgage payments to make, kids to feed, and aren't likely to be willing to support emotional appeals that are going to decrease their quality of life, withou…

Your argument is "I got mine fuck everyone else" which I think is about as uncompelling as an argument gets. My argument is that getting more people into tech increases opportunities and raises the standards of living for everyone. When entire industries are disappearing due to automation I think it is rather ridiculous to try to restrict people from becoming programmers. You are right, it is not your choice, and tha…

We restrict immigrants to the US so we don’t flood the country with low skilled labor. Most first world countries do this. We’re reducing H1Bs, as they were used to depress wages. This is no different, and it saddens me that you think this is “I got mine fuck you”. Is that what you think of the GM workers losing their jobs in Ohio? I desire high wages for as many workers as possible.

Re: We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage

#528

Post by droithomme »

sidlls wrote: post #484
chronogram wrote: post #464

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are not nett salaries are they? So keep in mind in Europe it can be 5k times 2 times 12=120k. (How to use asterisks here?)

A 50th percentile base salary for a senior engineer in the Bay Area is around $150k-$160k per year. Most companies offer a cash bonus (10%-15% of base); including this puts a typical cash compensation total for a 50th percentile senior engineer is between $165k and $184k per year. Most companies offer stock, but the grant and value of these varies wildly. Public companies' stock is actually worth something but you ha…

Base salary is a ruse. Median total compensation for qualified experts in the bay is currently $450-750k at reputable firms. Everyone knows this. Any company offering less is simply not in the running and is staffed by absolute morons and won't make it. So sad to be them.

Re: We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage

#529

Post by Consultant32452 »

Waterluvian wrote: post #170
burtonator wrote: post #5

I had a recruiter call me a year ago with what sounded like a really amazing offer. Working for a well funded startup on a problem in which I happen to be a domain expert. They're aren't many expects in my field with my background and skill set and they said the right things to get me to interview (compensation won't be a concern). Anyway... Went in for 4-5 interviews. Took me about 10 hours in total to interview wit…

Maybe I'm out of touch but 4-5 interviews when they have sought you out and you're a domain expert seems like a big red flag. I've had a few short interviews that quickly turned into a sales pitch on why I should work for them. I've also had the same you experienced: they act like they really want you specifically then feed you into the human resource machine. Basically made me feel scammed so I bowed out after the f…

For my current job I took a 30 minute phone interview followed by an offer. The offer was what I was making as a consultant + benefits/vacation. So really it was a huge net pay increase. The project isn't super inspiring but I almost never work overtime, get 6 weeks vacation and it's 100% remote. This is honestly the best job I've ever had. I really don't understand why people put up with 4-5 interviews, homework, etc.

I guess I could understand it if I REALLY wanted to work at company X and company X happened to have annoying interview practices. But is that the condition for most people seeking jobs? Or is there some selection bias of who is posting about their experiences?

Re: We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage

#530

Post by Joakal »

sixtypoundhound wrote: post #418
riazrizvi wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1000X yes. It’s the result of a PR campaign to increase the H1B Visa allotment. Love H1B employees, they are just delicious! Low wages and zero bargaining power otherwise it’s out of the country with you. It’s also funny because this creates a problem where wages have been driven down to a point where skilled workers can barely afford to support a family in tech zones. So because of these depressed wages in software…

Wonder what would happen if we: - Set high minimum wage for H1B ($150,000+ annual salary, set to increase in response to inflation in technology salaries) - Incorporated an automatic green card "path to citizen" into the process, which will be portable between employers (with a decent provision for unemployment or family leaves). Seems like: - Dramatic improvement in living conditions for higher end H1B roles (less b…

It wouldn't be implemented. There's also demand for cheap labour.

Talent shortage, also known as cheap labour shortage.

Did you know that in Australia, overseas people are hired to deliver mail?

https://www.smh.com.au/national/post-turning-blind-eye-to-45...

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