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GitHub is undergoing a full-blown overhaul as execs and employees depart

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Re: GitHub is undergoing a full-blown overhaul as execs and employees depart

#521
post #515

Discrimination is fairness. War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.

Being considerate of other people is Stalinism, is that what you're saying?

That's what Stalin said.

But since parent was being sarcastic, yes, Stalinism is about being considerate.

Re: GitHub is undergoing a full-blown overhaul as execs and employees depart

#522
post #2

Whatever happens, I hope they improve their Android app. It is one of the most pathetic things I've ever had the mispleasure of using. Is it really that difficult to get push notifications for pull requests, issues, and my homepage news feed? I don't know what it's built with but it's not native in the least, it looks like some awful PhoneGap monstrosity.

I'm truly curious: who uses Android for development? I'd think getting a github Android app just right would be a low priority.

I meant to use it as a communications tool, not for pushing/pulling/etc. Responding to issues, accepting/declining PRs, and so forth.

Re: GitHub is undergoing a full-blown overhaul as execs and employees depart

#523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not absurd at all. Being a white male is being allowed at a table in a casino where the expected value of the game is positive, and much higher than any other table. You can still lose, but the players in general don't. You should be thankful for being allowed to play a game with the highest expected value.

If you lose all your chips at the "black table" and I lose mine at the "white table", as we cry over our beers it would be ridiculous for you to assert that I should feel privileged compared to you when our outcomes have turned out to be identical.

If we look around the bar, and see that the vast majority of people crying over the beers are black, would it be a reasonable thing for me to assert that the white folk that are here (you included) must've gotten extra unlucky?

I think that's a reasonable thing to assert. That's what privilege is: the number of times you can fuck up (self-inflicted bad things) or be unlucky (externally inflicted bad things) before you lose all your chips.

That's the nice things about probability and statistics. They allow us to compare an individual to a group.

Re: GitHub is undergoing a full-blown overhaul as execs and employees depart

#524
post #475

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looks like they trade "structure based purely on meritocracy" by "promote diversity". I don't see how this can go well. Meritocracy is important among dev and open source. And they don't care about political diversity. I can only imagine this new "culture of fear" where you can't hire white people (even woman). Skills and experiences should be the only way to choose who you hire, not race or gender. Anyway, looks lik…

> Meritocracy Meritocracy is a lie. Look how broken interview processes are - definitely not meritocratic. Meritocracy is a rationalisation for "I hire people I like so long as they don't say anything idiotic during the interview". You'd get better results from having some kind of bar that candidates have to meet and then just selecting one at random and giving that person the job.

What do you mean by "having some kind of bar ... to meet"? Isn't that what most interviewers do? For example have a expectation of javascript knowledge and ask questions to determine how knowledgable they are?

Re: GitHub is undergoing a full-blown overhaul as execs and employees depart

#525

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Programmers are abstract thinkers, and it's disgusting to see them lower themselves and adopt the semantics and memes of obvious cultural constructs like race. You have to be joking. This is sarcasm, right?

From my view, race seems arbitrary. You could also split people into blue-eyed and brown-eyed or something. It still doesn't say anything about that person. Its just that many normal persons act like its a huge difference.

Many people would agree with you that race doesn't say that much about a person. However, it's quite naive to argue that racial issues are not a part of every day life. We live in a world built on racial divides and conflicts. It's obviously venerable to strive towards a non-racist society, but to do so one needs to understand the issues at hand.

Re: GitHub is undergoing a full-blown overhaul as execs and employees depart

#526

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have an arrest record? If not: there's the magic power. Statistically speaking, a poor young black male is much more likely to have an arrest record than a poor young white male. Edit: holy batman the downvotes. I never considered the possibility that maybe #hnwatch is right.

And what if he does have an arrest record? Got any other stats instead to conclusively demonstrate his undeniable white magic? Where does a black person with no arrest record fit on your magic powers scale? Oh, never mind, I forgot for a second you're addressing something/someone specific with generalisations that are meaningless to him and have nothing to do with his life or status. Your argument is piss poor; that'…

This comment breaks the HN guidelines, as do several other of the comments you've posted, including in this thread. We ban accounts that do this, and it's the last thing this angry thread needs more of. Kindly reread the HN guidelines and follow them when posting here:

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html

Re: GitHub is undergoing a full-blown overhaul as execs and employees depart

#527

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ideological intolerance is part of it, but it's clearly not the only part, given that the very first point in her slide is "this is not work for white folks to lead", i.e. she doesn't want white allies. I don't see how much more explicit this lady can make the fact that she hates white people as such. As for German or Russian philosophers - that seems far fetched. This is an American phenomenon, and in its explicit a…

What, you can't even picture a white person being an ally if it's not as the leader of the group?

I can't picture a white person being an ally if white people are explicitly excluded from leadership.

BTW, do you want to get started on explaining away "we can't teach white male managers empathy or compassion"?

Re: GitHub is undergoing a full-blown overhaul as execs and employees depart

#528
post #469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"We need to start learning how to simply NOT THINK about race, and NOT MENTION IT." We live in a world where this is not remotely possible. Suggesting it is the worst sort of idealism.

But do you agree that the goal should be, more or less, to create a world where ethnicity, sex, and other body attributes matter as little as, say, eye color does today? If so, what is the plan to achieve that goal? Don't we achieve it by actually acting that way as much as possible ? That's what makes sense to me. Suppose we, in the name of equality or diversity or fairness, actually elevate the importance of bodily…

It's rarely possible to achieve a goal merely by pretending you've already achieved it. If current problems are driven by subconscious biases then you need to eliminate those. It seems to me that the best way to eliminate them is to forcibly overcome them until people get used to seeing more minorities in these positions and replace their subconscious biases with new ones.

Re: GitHub is undergoing a full-blown overhaul as execs and employees depart

#529
post #482

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We need to start learning how to simply NOT THINK about race, and NOT MENTION IT. There is simply no excuse at all to mention it. So when Neil deGrasse Tyson talks about his experience constantly being treated as a shoplifter solely based on his race [1], there's "simply no excuse at all"? I'd counter there's simply no excuse at all to attempt silencing necessary discussion about ongoing mass injustice. [1] http://…

You misinterpret proc0's comment: they are saying there is no excuse to treat Neil deGrasse Tyson as a shoplifter because of his race, that there is no excuse to ever decide that all people of a certain race or any category are all something or share something (in their comment "assholes" in yours "shoplifting"). Basically racism (using this definition: [1]) is never OK, regardless to which race and with which attrib…

> they are saying there is no excuse to treat Neil deGrasse Tyson as a shoplifter because of his race

If that's really what he's saying, then that's even dumber. You can change how you think. You can help to change the thinking of the people you come in contact with. You can't change anyone you've never met, particularly the people who treated Tyson as a shoplifter. I'd love it if racism were to just disappear too. But wanting it to happen doesn't make it happen.

Re: GitHub is undergoing a full-blown overhaul as execs and employees depart

#530
Diversity is a touchy subject. As a black engineer myself I've worked at three companies where I've been the only black technical worker and it's hard some times. I've gone to conferences where I've been maybe 1 of 5 or 6 engineers out of hundreds. i don't do any hiring but I often wonder if there is a lack of qualified black male or female engineers or what but sometimes I do feel isolated.
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