VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris attacks • Hacker News Board

Re: VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris attacks

#521

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Nov 17, 2015, 6:07 PM UTC

cygx wrote: post #64

iamthepieman wrote: post #37

I work with a Muslim and I'm a Christian. Since we are both very conservative, I actually have more in common with him than with my secular coworkers and friends. Unfortunately we both work remotely and live several hundred miles from each other. I think we could be good friends if we lived closer. One thing I have learned talking with my Muslim coworker is that, just like in Christianity, there are many divisions an…

Of course it's not "all Muslisms". But those who claim "it's only the terrorists" or "it's all politics" do not grasp the scope of the problem, ie that globally speaking, a significant number of adherents of Islam hold ideas that are incompatible with an open society. If you naively extrapolate from the 2013 Pew Poll The World’s Muslims: Religion, Politics and Society (which in principle represents nations with a tot…

[deleted]

Re: VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris attacks

#522

Post by mercurial » Tue, Nov 17, 2015, 6:07 PM UTC

acqq wrote: post #350

the_af wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> However, note that no beheadings have been staged in Vatican City in recent years. True, but I think it's more complex than that. First, I do not think the Vatican automatically represents the most conservative brand of Christianity; not at all times, anyway. Not now, for example. Second, beheadings seem rightfully barbaric and horrendous to us, but as terrible as they are, I think their impact is superficial in a…

> ISIS beheadings are a matter of form, a propaganda tool Wrong. The beheadings are the things Mohammad did, as written in their holy books, so they just do that, following their role model even without the cameras.

If you think ISIS doesn't have a carefully planned PR strategy, I have a bridge or two to sell you. Of course they're using medieval methods, since their branding is "pure, original, undiluted Islam". But it's absolutely calculated.

Re: VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris attacks

#523

Post by mercurial » Tue, Nov 17, 2015, 6:08 PM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #194

AndyKelley wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not? How about we fork the Qur'an like it were source code, delete the parts about killing people for their beliefs, add in some more commandments such as "don't rape, don't discriminate, be nice to everybody. It's ok if you don't literally believe that Allah exists." etc etc. Then we can rename it to Islam2 or Progressive Islam, or something like that. Everybody wins. I'm pretty sure that's already been done wit…

Feel free, the council of Nicosia was a similar attempt at making Christianity more internally consistent and in a way the Bible itself already was a re-write, think of it as Judaism 2.0 and it starts to make a lot more sense. But typically such a movement originates from within the religion and I highly doubt it can be imposed from outside. Note that most religious text are 'tamper proof' in that they contain little…

That and the fact that there is no central religious authority for Islam.

Re: VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris attacks

#524

Post by ender7 » Tue, Nov 17, 2015, 6:10 PM UTC

cygx wrote: post #64

iamthepieman wrote: post #37

I work with a Muslim and I'm a Christian. Since we are both very conservative, I actually have more in common with him than with my secular coworkers and friends. Unfortunately we both work remotely and live several hundred miles from each other. I think we could be good friends if we lived closer. One thing I have learned talking with my Muslim coworker is that, just like in Christianity, there are many divisions an…

Of course it's not "all Muslisms". But those who claim "it's only the terrorists" or "it's all politics" do not grasp the scope of the problem, ie that globally speaking, a significant number of adherents of Islam hold ideas that are incompatible with an open society. If you naively extrapolate from the 2013 Pew Poll The World’s Muslims: Religion, Politics and Society (which in principle represents nations with a tot…

  If you naively extrapolate, ...

Yes, this is definitely an appropriate time to make sweeping generalizations based solely on naive extrapolations.

https://xkcd.com/605/

Re: VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris attacks

#525

Post by sammydavis » Tue, Nov 17, 2015, 6:13 PM UTC

redial wrote: post #462

Cyph0n wrote: post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What private revelation? Go to your nearest bookstore and pick up the Quran. Problem solved. "Other mammal" here refers to what exactly? As for punishment, that happens when you intentionally deny the existence of the Creator, even when given the access to His word and religion. Islam teaches us that human beings are born pure and good by default, unlike other religions. Suppose you lived your life on a remote island…

Other mammals as in the ones who use religious texts to get 'power' in the real world. Politicians, military leaders, jihadists, and sadly even teachers and parents. And was the Quran not a revelation from 'God' only to Muhammad? If he wants to believe it, fine, why should anybody else? Oh yes, eternal torture. It is childish to be told a story and believe it true only because they threaten you.

What you are describing as a private revelation from god is not different than the ones in christianity, such as seeing that burning bush.

Re: VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris attacks

#526

Post by jacquesm » Tue, Nov 17, 2015, 6:14 PM UTC

xorcist wrote: post #515

will_brown wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IS = an ideological network of individuals hiding among civilian populations across the globe US = an nation state with an identifiable military subjected to rule of law >and both sides are very clearly not very precise in who they actually target (the bombing on Doctor's Without Border, anyone?). Both sides cause tons of civilian casualties For better or worse the US is operating on intelligence specifically designe…

The leader of one of these organizations is known to have said: "God told me to bomb (them), so I did. God is on our side." It's not always easy from the outside to tell them apart from their propaganda.

I'd looked away from this thread for a while, then came back. Upon return your comment was the only one visible and until I scrolled up I did not realize who 'the leader of one of these organizations' was, I thought you were talking about Bin Laden...

Re: VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris attacks

#527

Post by iamthepieman » Tue, Nov 17, 2015, 6:16 PM UTC

salgernon wrote: post #479

powertower wrote: post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Second, I don't try to justify or excuse (I mean, Jesus!), just to put in perspective and explain . That's the point, you are putting in perspective unrelated things and unrelated places and unrelated times... None of the events you listed are related to the polling results that almost half of Muslims think that death should be the penalty for apostasy. That's something inherent to the ideology and its resulting cu…

In America, some 28% of christians are biblical literalists of the "God said it, I believe it, that settles it sort" So they probably would agree with this passage from their bible: Deuteronomy 13:6-10: “If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast n…

> So they probably would agree with this passage from their bible: Deuteronomy 13:6-10:

No. The bible says itself that those laws no longer apply.

Romans 7:6 But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code.

Galatians 5:13-15 For you were called to freedom, brothers. Only do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” But if you bite and devour one another, watch out that you are not consumed by one another.

Re: VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris attacks

#528

Post by finance-geek » Tue, Nov 17, 2015, 6:18 PM UTC

cygx wrote: post #64

iamthepieman wrote: post #37

I work with a Muslim and I'm a Christian. Since we are both very conservative, I actually have more in common with him than with my secular coworkers and friends. Unfortunately we both work remotely and live several hundred miles from each other. I think we could be good friends if we lived closer. One thing I have learned talking with my Muslim coworker is that, just like in Christianity, there are many divisions an…

Of course it's not "all Muslisms". But those who claim "it's only the terrorists" or "it's all politics" do not grasp the scope of the problem, ie that globally speaking, a significant number of adherents of Islam hold ideas that are incompatible with an open society. If you naively extrapolate from the 2013 Pew Poll The World’s Muslims: Religion, Politics and Society (which in principle represents nations with a tot…

> "a significant number of adherents of Islam hold ideas that are incompatible with an open society."

Not sure where you got that statistic, but the much better documented statistic are those of...say...US Republicans. An actual significant population (backed by polls) support outright genocide. Here is a Christian Pastor calling for genocide. Its not some conspiracy-esque statistic like yours, he does it out on the puplit. http://aattp.org/christian-pastor-calls-for-genocide-of-all-...

Re: VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris attacks

#529

Post by jacquesm » Tue, Nov 17, 2015, 6:23 PM UTC

venomsnake wrote: post #424

oblio wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a very polite way to deal with the problem. I've seen first hand that most people bend easily. A very charismatic leader can do a lot of harm. I'm a firm believer in anti-hate-speech laws.

>I'm a firm believer in anti-hate-speech laws. And I am firm believer of benevolent dictatorship. The main problems comes with the inheritance - how can we ensure the next is also benevolent? Same is with speech - we cannot project into the future how laws banning (especially widely defined as the lawmaker bodies love to do them) categories of speech will be abused - so it is better safe to not have them at all.

No need to wait that long, usually the benevolent dictator of today is the tyrant of tomorrow.

Re: VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris attacks

#530

Post by TeMPOraL » Tue, Nov 17, 2015, 6:29 PM UTC

fauigerzigerk wrote: post #264

jacquesm wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And no one in Europe is advocating throwing anyone back into a war zone. Ah, you must be a bit out of touch with recent developments in NL. We're soon to have elections and it looks like we'll have Geert Wilders for prime minister, his main motto is 'close the borders', the secondary one is 'the problem is the foreigners' and the third is 'let's throw all those refugees out'. And whether it is exactly 40% or not is…

>his main motto is 'close the borders' I'm not out of touch enough to have missed this opinion. But that is not the same as saying that people should be sent back to war zones. We don't have borders with Syria. But you are right that I don't know specifically what that Dutch politician actually demands other than closing the borders.

It's not just NL. It's PL too, and DE and apparently almost every other European country. If the whole Europe closes up the borders at the same time, it's effectively sending the refugees back to warzone.