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US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

reuters.com

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Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#511

Post by flanked-evergl »

apatheticonion wrote: post #320

I use DeepSeek every day (via VSCode Insiders and Zed Editor). It's very affordable and, while it's slightly behind Claude (not sure how far behind Fable), it suits my working style well. I'm not using unsupervised multi-agent workflows and don't need a library of skills files - I'm writing most of the code and leaning on AI to help with mundane tasks - like; - generating types for APIs - generating boilerplate based…

> US companies already stole scores of data to train their models on and it's hard to imagine they suddenly grew some integrity.

Can you be specific about what data of yours were stolen by who?

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#512

Post by [deleted] »

nujabe wrote: post #453
technion wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an Australian.. politically I need to worry about business data touching China. It will come up at a Risk Advisory Committee meeting as a serious issue. In actual personal practice, no. China having my data presents no actual impact to me, America will do things that impact me.

Exactly. And I feel the same way as a US citizen. China is mostly interested in geopolitical stuff and getting an economic advantage, plus they have no jurisdiction in the US. Your data in the hands of the US government however could potentially land you in prison.

[deleted]

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#513

Post by edelhans »

WarmWash wrote: post #347
Giefo6ah wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would be the practical difference between an order from a party cadre in a private firm and a national security letter?

A legitimate legal system with judges who have no obligation to anyone or anything besides the constitution first, and laws second.

And what makes you think that the US still has such a system?

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#514

Post by dana-s »

WarmWash wrote: post #106

If Chinese LLMs are successfully making people in the west defend China, then I think we have all the evidence we need to explain why they are giving away their models. The next step of course will be to get people using that ungodly cheap AI on Chinese servers. Which will also be defended because "I would never trust an American Lab".

Talking with an American trying to sell me on "don`t use deepseek because of moral reasons" really made me much more invested in China.

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#515

Post by frm88 »

embedding-shape wrote: post #336
mtoner23 wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

trump just undid the gpu export to china to help jensen make money

Oh, that's great, finally they put that cat back in the bag, surely it can never escape. Gonna be interesting to see how the ecosystem looks like 2-3 years, I'd be expecting some drastic changes compared to today.

3 days ago the deal was still on https://news.bloomberglaw.com/us-law-week/trumps-china-nvidi...

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#516

Post by epolanski »

inigyou wrote: post #457
epolanski wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which part of releasing ai research in the open or open weight models reflect that exactly?

It's trained to reflect CCP propaganda positions? What does it tell you about Tiananmen Square, Taiwanese sovereignty, the South China Sea or Israel?

1. Nobody gives a damn about that. Frontier models are for work, not asking pointless stuff you can find on wikipedia.

2. The models themselves are not trained for anything, it's a prompt-level filter when you use chinese models as providers. I've just asked Kimi 2.6 and it answered without issues.

3. US models sugarcoat a lot topics about Israel. So don't be naive thinking there's no propaganda or sugarcoating in other providers. But again, nobody cares about this use case.

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#517

Post by dataflow »

vincnetas wrote: post #492
steelframe wrote: post #456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Makes me wonder what the value of a PhD is.

I would say to push frontier of human knowledge forwards. Its not a high school anymore where you learn to learn. PhD is already a place where you should deliver value. (By "value" i don't mean commercial product)

>> Makes me wonder what the value of a PhD is.

> I would say to push frontier of human knowledge forwards.

Not sure if this is what you meant, but to be clear: pushing human knowledge forward is a practical prerequisite of a PhD (given it's pretty hard to convince people you're adequately trained to do such a thing without actually demonstrating it), but it's not the value of the PhD itself. The value is producing a researcher -- that is, someone who has the skills to continue accomplishing this in the future.

The difference is that if you happen to expand human knowledge by a stroke of dumb luck (or smart AI...) without actually having acquired skills to continue doing so in the future, then you're not really earning a PhD.

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#518

Post by godelski »

Cub3 wrote: post #466
godelski wrote: post #460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If I spoke freely about how I feel about the US right now If you read my comment as defending the US then you've misread. Also, you're probably just as pissed as 60% of Americans > It is inconsequential if the US or China have my data Sure it does. The way each distributes data between government and industry has some differences. So too does the different disinformation campaigns each country is running against Au…

> you're probably just as pissed as 60% of Americans Yet you voted for it

Me? I didn't vote for the orange Nazi

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#519

Post by setopt »

inigyou wrote: post #452
setopt wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Completely agreed. I would go further and say that it should be legal to scrape responses from LLMs to train new LLMs, and that forbidding that in your ToS should be considered an illegal contract. That’s simply the best way to avoid complete monopolization of the space, without requiring more drastic measures like antitrust down the line (which we seem to not manage well these days, given the number of monopolies).…

What does an illegal contract mean?

In many countries, if a contract contains illegal clauses (i.e. requirements that are inconsistent with the law or public policy), that contract is considered void and unenforceable. It depends on "how illegal" each statement is, whether only that part of the contract is considered void, or the contract as a whole.

One extreme example would be that if I wrote a contract requiring you to become my literal slave if you didn’t pay your subscription on time, you would in practice suffer no consequences from not paying, because the contract itself is illegal in most jurisdictions. A less extreme example would be that where I live (Northern Europe), I can sign a contract saying that I waive my right to sue the company I purchase a service from, and then sue them anyway because it’s my right by law and asking me to waive my rights is an illegal contract. Or that where I live, non-compete clauses in employment contracts are illegal unless you offer 100% salary throughout the non-compete timeframe, so I can sign an employment contract with unpaid non-compete clauses and just ignore that part as it’s illegal.

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#520

Post by alfiedotwtf »

Cakez0r wrote: post #395
hodgehog11 wrote: post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In terms of price-to-productivity, nothing will beat DeepSeek right now. For what you have described, all of the existing frontier models will perform well (probably about the same even). If you expanded the list to very hard research tasks, Fable was so far ahead of the others that it doesn't even deserve debate. If you are a researcher doing something involving scientific computation or mathematics that wasn't reje…

Mimo 2.5 pro is the best intelligence / dollar

Sadly also one of the slowest of the recently released large models
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