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How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

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Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#511

Post by [deleted] »

abeppu wrote: post #439
slibhb wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Freedom of speech is just the easiest way to have plausible deniability when directly or indirectly defending otherwise indefensible positions. The idea that it's somehow suspicious to be in favor of free speech has got to be one of the worst developments in American politics. And, for whatever it's worth, every vocal "free speech person" I know doesn't like the current administation. Some people actually just have…

I think the swerve that makes free speech absolutism less credible now than a generation ago is the prominence that lies and misinformation have gained in the discourse. I think you can still believe that any political, religious or economic view is fair to say/publish/broadcast as an ernest expression of perspective, and that even potentially hateful views inevitably come along for that ride. We tolerate the KKK pro…

[deleted]

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#513

Post by [deleted] »

twright wrote: post #122

This is a really good compilation that should make any "free-speech absolutist" reconsider their support for the current administration. In my understanding, the commonplace interpretation of the first amendment is largely due to a series of landmark cases through the early to mid-20th century. A lot of expansions were provided to the amendment that have been taken for granted since then and we are now going to see c…

[deleted]

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#514

Post by mychael »

dashundchen wrote: post #445
mychael wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

How can one be this delusional? I have the feeling you don't understand what a libertarian is or what the enlightenment was about

Instead of piecing together a well reasoned retort that refutes my arguments, you're calling me "delusional". Please learn how to disagree.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Graham%27s_Hierarchy...

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#515

Post by TOMDM »

harry8 wrote: post #353

Now might be a good time to revisit the twitter files and really try to understand what was in them and why it was horrifying. Seems many people wanted to pretend they were nothing because it didn't suit their partisan narrative. We're seeing the same kinds of justification now just with different partisans. If we don't call out abuses by our own tribe (whichever that is), maybe we're part of the attack.

The Twitter files that document the FBI requesting takedown of posts and accounts, Twitter internally debating the request, refusing the FBI and then suffering no consequences?

Those Twitter files?

Meanwhile Trump is suing pollsters for publications he doesn't like; extorting law firms for representation as reparation for them representing clients that sued him, who is deporting lawful permenant residents without due process for speech that is protected.

How can you possibly look at these and think they are in any way equivelant?

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#516

Post by Daishiman »

tayo42 wrote: post #403
boroboro4 wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I’m with you on attention economy I think it’s simplification of what’s going on: – we had very dysfunctional legislature for last 20+ years – quality of life is falling for majority of people This contributes to feeling of unfairness in the society which pushes authoritarian and populist ideas.

I don't get why people expect the government to make their lives amazing? Has this ever happened, where had some amazing QoL thanks to their countries government. I expect my government to manage public resources, the economy and defense. It can provide social safety nets for worst case scenarios. But if your eating food and have a home and making money what are people actually expecting from the government?

The precise point is that people are _not_ having a home due to a lack of affordability, that they are not having access to health care, and that rights and ascending social mobility of the past is being taken away.

And yes, government policies can definitely help or hinder in all of these.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#517

Post by beej71 »

YZF wrote: post #370
esalman wrote: post #184

It started with the Free Palestine protesters. Tesla protesters are next. Citizens will be shipped to El Salvador, non-citizens to where they came from.

You mean this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tF2MHRtONo4 and this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmBk3T935CI is just free speech? Here's the deal. You want free speech don't intimidate, threaten and vandalize. I own a Tesla. I bought one because I wanted an EV to reduce my emissions and that was the best one (years ago). Your right to free speech doesn't trump (heh, see what I did there) my right to be safe. EDIT…

No, that is obviously not "just free speech". Sheesh. C'mon, man.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#518

Post by girvo »

barfingclouds wrote: post #252
dclowd9901 wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, if you look at it from the perspective of faithless reporting like that from Fox News and Newsmax, the information pipeline has been selling a narrative that the left has been on an authoritarian tear since Obama. The newscasts are chilling: every one of them for more than two decades has taken a position that the left is an existential threat to the United States. With that kind of context, it's really no wond…

The left has been authoritarian. Rewind the clock to 2018, and speak your mind freely on a college campus and at some point you’ll say something that makes you lose your job. That’s one of many examples of the left being actually authoritarian. I’m not saying two wrongs make a right and I’m not justifying the current administration. But if we look to how we got here, that’s a lot of why, if not mostly why.

Ah yes, because college campuses and the literal federal administration have the same level of power. Absolute tosh.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#519

Post by mptest »

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #401
mptest wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>he simply does not have majority support That very well may be, but considering all his policies do[0], the question must be asked, why? Maybe we should ask ourselves why, when the american majority supported his entire policy agenda, did they not support him? Could it be perhaps the billionaire owned media misrepresenting him and his positions? His own party conspiring to take him out of the primary running? Or jus…

They don't support him because he identifies as pro-socialism and anti-capitalism, while in 2019 socialism polled at -13 and capitalism at +32. Sanders is well aware of this, but as he's explained in the past, his goal is to spark a political revolution and he doesn't care if that leads to opposition from wealthy or corporate interests. https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2022/09/19/modest-decli... https://www.vox.c…

Sure, all of that can be true, but it doesn't change my point that Americans by and large support his policy, even if he isn't the best salesman in the country, or scares the boomers and the uneducated by mentioning socialism and triggering the McCarthy region of the brain, and it merits exploration as to why people support his policies but not him.

I agree, part of it may be his extreme language off-putting those who don't really know what socialism even means, ie the average american. Keep in mind the average american has reading comprehension at or below that of an average sixth grader. Try selling any complex idea or radical change (even for the better) to a sixth grader, it's going to be tough.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#520

Post by tstrimple »

Hojojo wrote: post #263
sepositus wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people don't like being told to what say/think/do. It turns out if you bully those people enough they elect a dictator. It wasn't and still isn't a surprise to me.

And yet they're being told to say/think/do every single day by Trump, Fox News, and the rest of conservative or alt right media, including people like Alex Jones and Joe Rogan. They love being told what to think.

You can literally watch this stuff real time on the internet now. Trump does something awful. Conservatives online are confused and start asking questions. Talking points from Fox News come out and basically every single conservative online is parroting the party talking points handed down to them. No more confusion.
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