How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack • Hacker News Board

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#401

Post by SpicyLemonZest » Mon, Mar 31, 2025, 4:05 AM UTC

mptest wrote: post #216

jfengel wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The attitude of "you won't make it better so we'll make it much, much worse" is the reason we're past the point of no return. Actually making things better is hard. A lot of people legitimately disagree with Bernie Sanders. He simply does not have majority support. For the rest of my life, the Democrats' policy is going to be "trying to get back the rights you lost in 2024”.

>he simply does not have majority support That very well may be, but considering all his policies do[0], the question must be asked, why? Maybe we should ask ourselves why, when the american majority supported his entire policy agenda, did they not support him? Could it be perhaps the billionaire owned media misrepresenting him and his positions? His own party conspiring to take him out of the primary running? Or jus…

They don't support him because he identifies as pro-socialism and anti-capitalism, while in 2019 socialism polled at -13 and capitalism at +32. Sanders is well aware of this, but as he's explained in the past, his goal is to spark a political revolution and he doesn't care if that leads to opposition from wealthy or corporate interests.

https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2022/09/19/modest-decli...

https://www.vox.com/2016/1/28/10853502/bernie-sanders-politi...

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#402

Post by bongodongobob » Mon, Mar 31, 2025, 4:05 AM UTC

dgacmu wrote: post #15

tombert wrote: post #3

I understand why these things have to be posted, but I would be lying if I said that I wasn't utterly exhausted by the constant shit that the Trump administration is spitting at us. I mean, I get it, bad shit needs to be reported on, the Trump admin does a lot of bad shit, it makes sense, but it's just extremely tiring. I know that's kind of the point, to bombard us with all this shit all at once so that we are exhau…

You said you didn't know what to do, so some ideas to start the ideas flowing for you: - support media, particularly local. - there are protests to attend if that's your thing. Tesla takedown is one set that's getting a lot of traction. (Note: these are peaceful protests; don't hurt people's cars). There's a broad "hands off" protest April 5, as another example. - build and stay in touch with community. - encourage o…

How have those methods worked against authoritarian governments historically? I think we need to start being more realistic.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#403

Post by tayo42 » Mon, Mar 31, 2025, 4:06 AM UTC

boroboro4 wrote: post #244

pfo32 wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its cooked everywhere. Thank the Attention Economy. All sides are trapped by in a fight over finite Attention. Its like the world war but instead of land its Views/Clicks/Likes. Since Attention is a finite non growing pool the trap is set. One day some one gets all the fish and another its someone else. Anyone who has any sense wouldn't waste any energy being part of such a stupid game cause its eventually lose lose.…

While I’m with you on attention economy I think it’s simplification of what’s going on: – we had very dysfunctional legislature for last 20+ years – quality of life is falling for majority of people This contributes to feeling of unfairness in the society which pushes authoritarian and populist ideas.

I don't get why people expect the government to make their lives amazing?

Has this ever happened, where had some amazing QoL thanks to their countries government.

I expect my government to manage public resources, the economy and defense. It can provide social safety nets for worst case scenarios. But if your eating food and have a home and making money what are people actually expecting from the government?

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#404

Post by least » Mon, Mar 31, 2025, 4:06 AM UTC

slibhb wrote: post #257

p1necone wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not really convinced more than a vanishingly small percentage of people who self identify as "free speech absolutists" are using that term in good faith. Freedom of speech is just the easiest way to have plausible deniability when directly or indirectly defending otherwise indefensible positions. Anecdotally I've noticed these sorts of people much less often, at least on here as of late. Methinks their deniabilit…

> Freedom of speech is just the easiest way to have plausible deniability when directly or indirectly defending otherwise indefensible positions. The idea that it's somehow suspicious to be in favor of free speech has got to be one of the worst developments in American politics. And, for whatever it's worth, every vocal "free speech person" I know doesn't like the current administation. Some people actually just have…

> The idea that it's somehow suspicious to be in favor of free speech has got to be one of the worst developments in American politics.

This isn't really a recent development but I think I understand what you mean. Authoritarians, regardless of their political leanings, try and sow distrust in free speech in order to garner support for advancing their agenda.

Currently, the "right" is using "free speech" as a tool to push back against the "woke agenda." So now "free speech" is becoming faux pas, at least in certain circles. Mentioning it as something you value without some long preface to explain yourself now associates you with a certain group of people, whether that group actually values free speech or not.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#405

Post by milesrout » Mon, Mar 31, 2025, 4:06 AM UTC

sapphicsnail wrote: post #313

slibhb wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Freedom of speech is just the easiest way to have plausible deniability when directly or indirectly defending otherwise indefensible positions. The idea that it's somehow suspicious to be in favor of free speech has got to be one of the worst developments in American politics. And, for whatever it's worth, every vocal "free speech person" I know doesn't like the current administation. Some people actually just have…

I have yet to see a free speech absolutist express concern about the government and media suppressing Gaza protestors or LGBTQ books being banned or anything else that affects the left. Doesn't seem very principled to me.

Nobody is banning books. Removing inappropriate material from school libraries isn't book banning. Have you seen some of the books that are being removed? That books with graphic depictions of aren't appropriate for children is a view perfectly compatible with strong support for freedom of expression.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#406

Post by bongodongobob » Mon, Mar 31, 2025, 4:06 AM UTC

tombert wrote: post #7

Afforess wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Voting is the minimum of civic duty, not the maximum.

Sure. What are you doing outside of voting?

Civil disobedience. There's an entire spectrum of what you can do with that.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#407

Post by vvpan » Mon, Mar 31, 2025, 4:06 AM UTC

al_borland wrote: post #360

esalman wrote: post #184

It started with the Free Palestine protesters. Tesla protesters are next. Citizens will be shipped to El Salvador, non-citizens to where they came from.

What many of them are doing isn’t a legally protected form of protesting. Free Palestine protesters have been shutting down roads with their protests, this is illegal. Tesla protesters are vandalizing the vehicles of private citizens and burning down dealerships. This is also illegal, and due to its political goals, it seems to fit the textbook definition of terrorism. > the calculated use of violence (or the threat…

You are taking large movements with at least tens of thousands of participants and cherry-picking actions of a few people, you are contributing to the free speech problem by making false associations.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#408

Post by wwweston » Mon, Mar 31, 2025, 4:06 AM UTC

tombert wrote: post #41

dgacmu wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You said you didn't know what to do, so some ideas to start the ideas flowing for you: - support media, particularly local. - there are protests to attend if that's your thing. Tesla takedown is one set that's getting a lot of traction. (Note: these are peaceful protests; don't hurt people's cars). There's a broad "hands off" protest April 5, as another example. - build and stay in touch with community. - encourage o…

> support media, particularly local. Agreed. No argument on that. > there are protests to attend if that's your thing. I'm afraid they're not. I'm happy to donate money to causes for people to protest but just being honest, I'm probably not going to do it. > Tesla takedown is getting a lot of traction I don't really want to damage strangers' property. I don't own any car as I just take public transportation, so I can…

Personally, I respect reluctance to protest. Protest is situationally effective and sometimes necessary, but holds a dramatically outsized place in public imagination. So much of effective politics happens elsewhere.

The core of politics is building coalitions of cooperation that can sustain and grow themselves, ideally around habits of ongoing participation and policy goals that have wide benefits.

That means you have to start by developing habits. You are a political organization of one. What habits of schedule and focus will sustain that? How will you widen them into an organization of two, of six, of twelve, and more?

> I've debated it, but I think I'm a bit too eccentric to be a good politician.

There may be an example or two of people who many would find eccentric who are currently holding elected office. You never know.

> I am also afraid it would turn me evil.

The key is making sure that you don't ever place yourself outside relationships of accountability. As long as you can think of recent conversations where you've engaged in reflective give and take with a personal or public critic that you have sustained relationships with, chances are pretty good you're OK.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#409

Post by knowaveragejoe » Mon, Mar 31, 2025, 4:07 AM UTC

linktraveler wrote: post #175

Nothing in this article actually makes a case for infringing upon the first amendment. "...But barely two months into his second term, the president has waged an unprecedented attack on the First Amendment rights of journalists, students, universities, government workers, lawyers and judges." Should journalists who make a career destroying lives with false narratives not have consequences? Should students who hate Am…

> You can't deny this has been the most effective first 100 days in decades. That upsets you. This is what we voted for.

A circus isn't effective, but it's entertaining at least.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#410

Post by kopirgan » Mon, Mar 31, 2025, 4:07 AM UTC

sapphicsnail wrote: post #313

slibhb wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Freedom of speech is just the easiest way to have plausible deniability when directly or indirectly defending otherwise indefensible positions. The idea that it's somehow suspicious to be in favor of free speech has got to be one of the worst developments in American politics. And, for whatever it's worth, every vocal "free speech person" I know doesn't like the current administation. Some people actually just have…

I have yet to see a free speech absolutist express concern about the government and media suppressing Gaza protestors or LGBTQ books being banned or anything else that affects the left. Doesn't seem very principled to me.

Wasn't it the other way around for way too long and still is in places like UK, Germany?!