Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

mcc-berlin.net

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

511–520 of 910 posts

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#511

Post by xienze »

smcl wrote: post #305
kortilla wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not a weasel word, it’s a word used to describe any program provided by the government that does not bring in enough revenue on its own to pay for itself. The same word applies to roads that do not pay for themselves through gas tax and/or tolls. If the government pays for something through a general fund from income/property/corporate taxes, it’s subsidized. It’s important to call these out whenever they are be…

> The same word applies to roads that do not pay for themselves through gas tax and/or tolls. It’s very weird how people talk about roads as a sort of universal public good whose construction and maintenance needs to be financed by local authorities and taxation. Yet rail is expected to not just stand on its own two feet but to yield a profit. Both facilitate commerce and improve a regions productivity (rail inarguab…

> It’s very weird how people talk about roads as a sort of universal public good whose construction and maintenance needs to be financed by local authorities and taxation.

Because you need roads to e.g., get produce from a farm to the grocery store. You can’t have a functioning society that doesn’t involve roadways for moving people and goods the “last mile.”

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#512

Post by caskstrength »

emaro wrote: post #74
server_man3000 wrote: post #2

Didn’t this start as unlimited anywhere for 9 euros no strings attached? I LOVE the German transit system (although Denmark wins in cleanliness). However, Germany is a bit predatory with this new system. You can ONLY purchase this ticket as a subscription model. If you’re a tourist, you must cancel before the 10th of the month or you get auto rebilled. Additionally, there are so many apps that resell the ticket as so…

Surprised how positive you're writivg about the German public transport. The Deutsche Bahn doesn't have a good reputation in central Europe. I guess my frame of reference isn't average, given I live in Switzerland. Edit: the 49-euro ticket is great though!

> Edit: the 49-euro ticket is great though!

As a Swiss person you want appreciate German tax rates that subsidize that 49-euro tickets. The money has always got to come from somewhere.

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#513

Post by lispm »

weinzierl wrote: post #254
lispm wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The DB app? Definitely was not an option for the people who did that. Yeah, it's in the app. > Paying before just isn't always practical, but I understand that such limitations are often a non-issue for locals. That's how it works. Typical here for local trains: there are no barriers in train and bus stations. One can just enter the train and bus without any ticket check. But you have to make sure that you have a t…

That's how it works. That's how it works in Germany. Everywhere else I just swipe my mobile and I am done.

I don't even need to swipe a ticket. All my local public transport has zero ticket checks, just random&rare controls.

In a long distance train I check in on my booked seat via the app. That's it. No additional ticket check.

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#514

Post by The_Colonel »

ivan_gammel wrote: post #504
dan-robertson wrote: post #449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Road wear scales with the fourth power of weight over the axle so, even with personal cars getting heavier, I’m not sure that moving people from cars to trains makes much of a difference – I think most wear typically comes from heavy vehicles or weathering – so it mightn’t make much difference to repair costs. That doesn’t mean there aren’t other advantages. Eg reducing parking spaces (as a sibling points out) to inc…

> Eg reducing parking spaces (as a sibling points out) to increase urban density is probably good for the economy Looking at most German cities, the effect of this is negligible.

I actually observe reduction of parking spaces in public spaces.

Although I don't think it could be an effect of Deutschlandticket, too little time to have an effect IMHO.

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#515

Post by switch007 »

timeinput wrote: post #506
switch007 wrote: post #451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which are used to justify expensive non-Advance tickets. £80 if I have the audacity to go to greater London today without having planned ahead (3 hour journey + tube). And the same cost coming back - off peak of course. £160! Vs £55 in petrol Travel at quieter times to benefit from cheaper off peak tickets they used to say. Hah.

And with strikes, weather related closures, maintenance closures, etc I end up having to rebook my ticket at the last minute. I'd say half of the advanced purchased journeys end up costing me more than just booking the train the day of.

Yes! Now we are getting on to the true cost of advanced tickets.

Fines for making mistakes, rebooking fees, rebooking and having to pay a higher fare, lost tickets because sometimes it's just easier to book a new ticket, losing out when unwell etc...

I bet they make a tidy sum from unused advance tickets

(Great Britain specific):

Although worth noting when it's out of your control the railway does have to offer you options. You don't have 100% of the liability.

And if your train is cancelled you're entitled to take the one before/after for example or get a refund

Though they do make this difficult these days

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#518

Post by lucumo »

dan-robertson wrote: post #449
SECProto wrote: post #428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funding road repairs, construction, and expansion from general tax revenues is similarly subsidizing a different mode of transit, and it's likely a much higher value than the 3b€ you mention (and likely more than overall railway sector subsidizing, tho I'm not familiar with Germany's budget). Also recognizing that other positive externalities exist, but pricing them at $0, seems silly.

Road wear scales with the fourth power of weight over the axle so, even with personal cars getting heavier, I’m not sure that moving people from cars to trains makes much of a difference – I think most wear typically comes from heavy vehicles or weathering – so it mightn’t make much difference to repair costs. That doesn’t mean there aren’t other advantages. Eg reducing parking spaces (as a sibling points out) to inc…

> time on a train can be better spent than time in a car because one doesn’t need to pay as much attention, which could be a small improvement to many people’s lives.

This is not really true on busy trains. I've commuted both on trains and in cars, and when comparing transportation methods near the saturation point, cars win when it comes to personal comfort.

A traffic jam is no fun, but you can still sit, aren't jostled about by other people, have your personal space, and keep your climate controlled to a good level.

In a full train, you will be standing up, pressed against a bunch of other people. The climate will be other people's sweat. You may be able to use your phone, but not much more.

On a longer quiet route the train can be very nice. Get your laptop out, do a little work, nice coffee or tea with you. But on a busy commuter line it's more annoying than a car.

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#519

Post by RealStickman_ »

k__ wrote: post #120

It's pretty awesome, but it gets more expensive all the time. First it started as 9€ ticket for 3 months. People loved it, and the government talked about doing a permanent 29€ ticket. But now we pay 49€ and it's already planned to become 59€. Really sad, as it isn't affordable for poor people anymore.

The Swiss ride anywhere ticket is 4000 CHF annually [1]. (330 CHF/month -> 350 EUR/month)

That's still less than an average car. A commonly quoted figure is 10'000 CHF per year. [2]

[1] https://www.sbb.ch/de/billette-angebote/abos/ga/ga-preise.ht...

[2] https://www.comparis.ch/carfinder/autofahren/auto-kosten

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#520

Post by lispm »

pjmlp wrote: post #489
lispm wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

maybe 3 hours in the car and 1h with public transport. if you are in the rushhour and a traffic jam (not an unusual problem), then the train will be faster. Plus one can work in the train or relax. My regional train here 20km going into the city center is impossible to beat by car. 77.77% of the people live in cities. 55% live in cities with >20k people. Generally Germany is a decentralized country with a lot of regi…

Nope, it suffices to live 80 km away from workplace, and not being lucky to live in places with direct connections, where at least three changes are required, with local connection bus, two train changes, plus additional bus/metro/tram on destination.

You don't need to be lucky to live in places with good connections. There are many such places.

That car traffic has generally less problems than the train system is a myth. Check the ADAC traffic event overview on a random workday.

Post reply on HN