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US Senate votes unanimously to make daylight savings time permanent

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Re: US Senate votes unanimously to make daylight savings time permanent

#511

Post by MrMetlHed »

seangrogg wrote: post #436
ddlatham wrote: post #360

We did this before, about 50 years ago. Going in, close to 80% of people supported permanent Daylight Saving Time. After experiencing a single winter, that dropped to close to 40%, and it was repealed. Looks like we may be doomed to repeat the experience. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permanent_time_observation_in_...

All I'm going to say is that - after experiencing about a decade of living in AZ and not worrying about toggling time - I'd still be in that camp that support permanently choosing a time.

I live in Arizona as well, and agree. I'd rather everyone else just pick a time and stick with it. Preferably DST so I can be 3 hours back of the East Coast and get 3 hours at the end of the work day there for solid working while no one else is around. And I like having sporting events on at the end of a work day.

Re: US Senate votes unanimously to make daylight savings time permanent

#512

Post by Arubis »

stormbrew wrote: post #506

I'd kill for a peek into the parallel universe where it was permanent standard time that was likely to get adopted and see how much effort went into researching the ill effects of that choice to convince people with enough FUD to keep daylight time switching going. Here's the thing: If you're a proponent of permanent standard time, you should be in favour of turning off the switching no matter what. Even if it means…

Agreed. The posted decision (permanently DST) is stupid, but less stupid than switching.

Re: US Senate votes unanimously to make daylight savings time permanent

#513

Post by adrianmonk »

dekhn wrote: post #396
patwolf wrote: post #343

Back in '08 when the US dates of DST changed, I was working on a Java-based enterprise software product with a relatively large install base. It suddenly became known to a lot of customers that timezone tables are part of the JRE, and simply updating the OS wasn't enough to get proper time calculations in Java. It was a very stressful time getting customers with many different versions of Java across dozens of platfo…

Huh. These days most systems I work with just use a shim into the system timezone tables (I just checked the Qt docs, as that's my preferred way to develop cross-platform apps).

It's probably because Java promises "write once, run anywhere". If you rely on the system timezone tables, you might have a different set of timezones available from one system to another or the rules for the same timezone might differ. And then code would behave differently on different operating systems.

If instead you ship timezone tables with the Java Runtime Environment, then you can promise that (by default) the code will behave the same.

It sucks that it creates extra maintenance burden (and lurking problems people may not be aware of), but that's the price you pay for decoupling.

Re: US Senate votes unanimously to make daylight savings time permanent

#514

Post by seanalltogether »

thehappypm wrote: post #375
ddlatham wrote: post #360

We did this before, about 50 years ago. Going in, close to 80% of people supported permanent Daylight Saving Time. After experiencing a single winter, that dropped to close to 40%, and it was repealed. Looks like we may be doomed to repeat the experience. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permanent_time_observation_in_...

I don’t get this at all. Why would people want the sun to go down in the afternoon? In my time zone it sets at 4:30 part of the year! That’s awful, and sunrise is at around 7:00am. We have way more sun in the morning.

Do you have kids? Do you have to wake those kids up for school in the dark and wrestle with your own ability to wake up in the dark? Have you been to school board meetings and listened to other parents who are extremely opinionated about every aspect of their children's schedules.

The simple answer is that while lots of people "want" the sun in the evening, there is a sizable group of people that "need" the sun in the morning.

Re: US Senate votes unanimously to make daylight savings time permanent

#515

Post by whacim »

ddlatham wrote: post #360

We did this before, about 50 years ago. Going in, close to 80% of people supported permanent Daylight Saving Time. After experiencing a single winter, that dropped to close to 40%, and it was repealed. Looks like we may be doomed to repeat the experience. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permanent_time_observation_in_...

I think they should just make a one time half-hour adjustment and split the difference. Not sure how much of a technical challenge that would present to implement.

Re: US Senate votes unanimously to make daylight savings time permanent

#516

Post by JumpCrisscross »

ddlatham wrote: post #360

We did this before, about 50 years ago. Going in, close to 80% of people supported permanent Daylight Saving Time. After experiencing a single winter, that dropped to close to 40%, and it was repealed. Looks like we may be doomed to repeat the experience. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permanent_time_observation_in_...

> Looks like we may be doomed to repeat the experience

Based on what? The fact that we're trying again?

If we all walk into this assuming it's doomed because it didn't work 50 years ago, sure, it will be, but that's how one doesn't get nice things.

Re: US Senate votes unanimously to make daylight savings time permanent

#518

Post by seangrogg »

RONROC wrote: post #423
thehappypm wrote: post #131

People literally die more because of these changes. Statistically measurable increase in mortality on these days. Save lives, stop changing the clocks.

I hate to be that guy but if you're dying because the clocks changed and it was too much of a burden for you to re-adjust (like literally everyone else does) then oh well. Policy decisions based on dodgy, whataboutism-esque figures is, in my opinion, what undergirded the incredibly incompetent COVID response here in the US, and elsewhere.

> Policy decisions based on dodgy, whataboutism-esque figures

You're arguing that people should increase their exposure to acute myocardial infarction (among other concerns) to account for dodgy whataboutism-esque energy consumption figures from the 1910s and 40s-50s that have been observed to actually increase energy consumption in modern times?

Re: US Senate votes unanimously to make daylight savings time permanent

#520

Post by humansuit »

kayodelycaon wrote: post #300
humansuit wrote: post #177

As long as they eliminate the constant inane switching back and forth. Sleep disruption is harmful in many ways and all this practice seems to actually do, old wives' tales about farmers and circumstantial localized benefits aside, is induce it. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5449130/

I'm bipolar and extremely sensitive to "minor" things like changing timezones during travel. The switch between EST and EDT fucks up my sleep for at least a week, usually longer. This is not going to be a good month. I can't wait for this to be signed into law.

I am also bipolar, and yes, it sucks. It is the actual soul of suck, to the point that it feels cruel and purposeful. And sure, you can adjust gradually - but add that to the pile of little easy life hacks that I already do to convince people that I'm "functional" and you've got one giant mountain of mental load.
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