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Firefox lost 50M users since 2019

data.firefox.com

511–520 of 618 posts

Re: Firefox lost 50M users since 2019

#511

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I trust it because it’s an open source project and I can see what goes in and comes out. Of course, maybe it won’t work forever, but it works for now. I’m not a crypto person and don’t use Brave’s crypto features, but I think it’s a more sustainable future than relying on Google’s largess.

> I trust it because it’s an open source project and I can see what goes in and comes out. That is just the browser part. The code on their servers that actually processes the data the browser collected is closed-source. In general, browser being open or closed source has no correlation with how privacy respecting it is. Chrom{e|ium} and Edge are another examples. Pragmatically speaking there is only one thing that g…

What server-side components are you referring to here? From my memory there was very little interesting private code, and I can't think of anything that would process user data that would be private.

Re: Firefox lost 50M users since 2019

#512

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I trust it because it’s an open source project and I can see what goes in and comes out. Of course, maybe it won’t work forever, but it works for now. I’m not a crypto person and don’t use Brave’s crypto features, but I think it’s a more sustainable future than relying on Google’s largess.

> I trust it because it’s an open source project and I can see what goes in and comes out. That is just the browser part. The code on their servers that actually processes the data the browser collected is closed-source. In general, browser being open or closed source has no correlation with how privacy respecting it is. Chrom{e|ium} and Edge are another examples. Pragmatically speaking there is only one thing that g…

To my understanding there is no data sent from my Brave client to any Brave servers. So my data are not stored or used by Brave servers, so I don’t care too much about their source.

Of course, there’s nothing magical about open source that makes it more privacy respecting. It’s just that open source let’s me know what my browser is doing. For example, Chrome is reporting everything I do to Google. It’s possible to know that by looking at the code for Chrome. Brave doesn’t do this and it’s possible to know that by looking at the code for Brave.

Re: Firefox lost 50M users since 2019

#513
post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's common to work around browser bugs like this. I wouldn't blame some possible hack a tired dev implemented on a busy Thursday on a grand scheme to strip you of your freedom - in the end it's just people working there. Especially seeing that the bug was fixed after someone complained/made them aware.

If you are Google, a multi billion company, pushing your own browser with a marketing budget in the hundreds of millions range (seriously, this was important to them, the only ad important enough to reach the front page of Google AFAIK) - then you better make sure you make it work everwhere instead of this constant "ooops"-thing that shows that Google doesn't even do the smallest amount of testing in Firefox, or they…

If you can save a million or two in salaries for testers for all Docs products, for software that in most cases just works as well as in Chrome, why waste the money? Google is a company.

Automated tests can help with this, but you also need to maintain and write those in the first place.

Just trying to follow the thought process as an economist. It's likely hard to justify, especially with admins being quick at noticing these things and employees on docs products usually being receptive on bug trackers since it is a business offering.

Re: Firefox lost 50M users since 2019

#514

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a theory why people have dissenting views on the performance of Firefox. I have a laptop dedicated to doing business online. Firefox has no addons on that machine. Some websites are painfully slow and my laptop fans kick on. I have debugged these issues and in every case it was javascript bogging down the CPU's, all 8 cores! gaming laptop I am not a web developer, so it is perhaps unfair for me to pick on the…

Chrome uses V8, which is the same JS engine that Node is built on top of. As the name implies, it’s sort of wicked fast. IIRC Firefox uses their own engine called Spider Monkey. I don’t know of anything outside of Mozilla which uses it. I have a hard time imagining it being faster than V8, but I actually have no idea — will need to go look at some benchmarks.

> Firefox uses their own engine called Spider Monkey. I don’t know of anything outside of Mozilla which uses it.

Some non-Mozilla projects do embed SpiderMonkey, including Bloomberg (since 2001!), MongoDB, CouchDB, and 0 A.D.

https://discourse.mozilla.org/t/survey-where-are-you-embeddi...

Re: Firefox lost 50M users since 2019

#515

Wondering why this is on the second page? Why would smb flag the story? Using alternative browsers is important. I have the same issues as others described in the chat. Meet-up does not work well in Firefox (video hangs, screenshare not working well ). In chromium no problem. Zoom and others work like a charm.

I have the same frustrating problem. Only time I use Chrome is when I need to jump onto a Meet call. Anyone has a solution to use Meet reliably on Firefox?

yes ... it's super annoying. Zoom does not implement some features on the web and I'm ok with it. Their client works perfectly from the any web browser I use.

Right now I have a chromium install just for meetup (as it does not work well in any other browser ... )

Re: Firefox lost 50M users since 2019

#516

I have contacted local authorities twice about anti competitive behavior from Chrome. If two - three other Norwegians do the same that should start to look like an earthquake ;-) Same if ten - twenty Germans or Brits or French do the same. I would mention: 1. that some of their web properties (calendar and YouTube) have been intentionally incompatible with Firefox as evidenced by how well they work in Firefox if one…

thanks for the info. Will also report this issue to the authorities.

I love keyboard driven browsers and had also some issues with nyxt and qutebrowser. I want to avoid installing chromium on my linux box and I just can't.

Recommending others also to report it.

If some googlers are reading this, please push the chrome team to be more interoperable. "Don't be evil!" :-)

Re: Firefox lost 50M users since 2019

#517
post #129
post #98

And that is the price they pay for trying to be Chrome clone UI wise and not listening to to the "power users". I hate to use the words "power user" but it is the small group of very active and enthusiastic users that you need to give the appears to every one else that they are missing out on something cool. I still use Firefox because it works reasonably for my usage but I stopped promoting it to other people around…

true. their api is now a dumbed down version of chrome. I still remember the days of vimperator and treetabs in xul. firefox did this to themselves. they dont deserve support.

Yeah, I've got zero interest in using their software after they broke TreeStyleTabs, what replaced it was crap.

I'm quite happy with Vivaldi, which, while based on Chrome, at least seems to understand what users need.

Re: Firefox lost 50M users since 2019

#518

I've been using Firefox daily for over 15 years now. My experience with Firefox over the last 2-3 years in particular leaves me very disappointed and frustrated. The constant nonsense UI redesigns that come about with every new update. The instability, and ridiculous resources consumption. The slowness and slugishness. I want a browser that works, respects my privacy, stays out of my way and lets me get shit done. A…

> The constant nonsense UI redesigns that come about with every new update. The instability, and ridiculous resources consumption. The slowness and slugishness.

I think this drives many people off Firefox. I am willing tinker with Firefox's internal CSS to tame some of the UI nonsense, but the rest of people just want a browser to get their work done; not to spend a couple hours every month to get rid of Firefox's new UI overhaul.

Re: Firefox lost 50M users since 2019

#519

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple requires WebKit to be web rendering engine for all browsers. Safari is one of 100+ browsers on iPhone.

Tomato, tomato

Not really.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_browser

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Browser_engine

Re: Firefox lost 50M users since 2019

#520

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I trust it because it’s an open source project and I can see what goes in and comes out. That is just the browser part. The code on their servers that actually processes the data the browser collected is closed-source. In general, browser being open or closed source has no correlation with how privacy respecting it is. Chrom{e|ium} and Edge are another examples. Pragmatically speaking there is only one thing that g…

To my understanding there is no data sent from my Brave client to any Brave servers. So my data are not stored or used by Brave servers, so I don’t care too much about their source. Of course, there’s nothing magical about open source that makes it more privacy respecting. It’s just that open source let’s me know what my browser is doing. For example, Chrome is reporting everything I do to Google. It’s possible to kn…

> To my understanding there is no data sent from my Brave client to any Brave servers.

That would be wrong. By Brave's own confession, there are 70 requests it sends "home" on startup [1]. Regardless of request payload, each of them contains your PII (IP address at the very least). There is plenty of opportunity for your data to be stored and used (not saying that it is).

If and how is that data actually used, we do not know, because this part is closed-source. When companies that are running advertising-based business models like Brave and Google are in question, this is the most important part users should be concerned with. Only way to settle this would be if the browser actually sent no requests anywhere, like you initially believed to be true. Indeed, a web browser has no business making requests anywhere without my explicit approval!

> It’s possible to know that by looking at the code for Chrome. Brave doesn’t do this and it’s possible to know that by looking at the code for Brave.

Do not want to be harsh but I assume you didn't actually look into the Brave's source code. You could have, but in reality very few actually do. Open-source "tag" on software can give this false sense of security because you rely on someone else to do the hard work and actually look through millions of lines of code.

The only way to actually trust a browser from a privacy standpoint is to check if it is indeed not transmitting any data. Instead of relying on source code, a much easier and foolproof way to check this is to use a network proxy, many are commonly available for all platforms. Then you can believe your own eyes vs marketing.

Disclaimer: I am in the business of creating a privacy respecting, zero-telemetry, browser. This topic is near and dear to my heart. More on this here [2] and here [3]

[1] https://brave.com/popular-browsers-first-run/

[2] https://browser.kagi.com/faq.html#ossprivacy

[3] https://browser.kagi.com/faq.html#privacy

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