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WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

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Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#511

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was always a clear business transaction: acess to a messenging service for access to meta data (and now message data). I wonder how Out of curiosity: Does anyone know how the new Whatsapp TOS differ from the Gmail TOS in regard to user data and privacy. How does the Facebook group use data differently than, say Facebook or Microsoft?

So what should self sentient person do, just lie down and accept the erosions of our blood won freedoms? No thanks. I have right now all my company talking to thousands of customers explaining this mess to them and helping those who need to switch to Signal. So yeah, fuck you FB!

Signal is no better. You fell into one marketing trap with WhatsApp and have now fallen for another.

Signal is another private entity with complete control of the servers and end client binaries. The fact they happen to open source the code is kind of moot since no services are allowed to write alternative implementations, no one can run their own servers or prove what code is running on Signals servers, nor can anyone even distribute reproducibly built binaries from said source code for accountability (e.g. f-droid).

There are so many better options. I suggest Element/Matrix which can even bridge to WhatsApp and Signal as needed thanks to community contributed bridges.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#512

I'd love to give up WhatsApp, but network effects are key here. I tried moving my extended family off WhatsApp onto Signal a couple of years ago and it failed miserably because the app wasn't nearly as easy to use, and they had all their friends on Whatsapp. Has anyone here had any success moving a large group of people onto something like Signal or Telegram? If so, do you have any tips?

Telegram is fantastic! Frankly I think it has a better ux then Whatsapp, especially considering the desktop apps.

Consider Threema instead. It recently went open source and it has top-notch, Signal-quality crypto and you don't need to provide a phone number or email.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#513

Can someone help and dumb this down a little bit for me so that I can then explain to some of my friends who couldn't care too much about this change in policy? For example: What should be my response to questions like: . "What kind of data can now be shared with FB versus what was shared earlier (if any)?" . "Whatsapp chats are end to end encrypted so how can my data be shared with FB?" . "As an individual, how diff…

Their infra is generating those encryption certificates, so WhatsApp can very well decode the message and store it for further processing.

They will most likely share metadata about you with facebook to sell that data to push more ads into your face.

They may very well sell also data to insurance companies making it harder for you to get insurance.

Options are limited only by who would like to pay for info about you.

Its rather a question about “How much you value your privacy?”

Ps. Ppl using facebook from the go “do not care about their privacy” so I dont know how much more it will affect you.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#514

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am moving to Signal too. Group by Group. May not happen over night, but in few weeks

Signal, that's another one that requires your phone number? Yeah, thanks but no thanks.

Don't they all? But good news is that they have pushed code to allow for usernames (or not even that). It isn't open to the public (or beta) yet, but it looks like the feature is going to be released fairly soon.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#515

I'd love to give up WhatsApp, but network effects are key here. I tried moving my extended family off WhatsApp onto Signal a couple of years ago and it failed miserably because the app wasn't nearly as easy to use, and they had all their friends on Whatsapp. Has anyone here had any success moving a large group of people onto something like Signal or Telegram? If so, do you have any tips?

My family is on Threema, but I advocated for it heavily and it's still an island and they all use WhatsApp in parallel. But at least family photos get shared on Threema now.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#516
post #463
post #437

The part that creeps me out the most is WhatsApp’s aggressiveness towards getting your Contacts. Other apps want them but WhatsApp hardly works without the permission. Why hasn’t Apple introduced a private/segmented Contacts permission like they have Photos, Location, etc.?

This has been a very long time due. An ability to give untrustworthy software an access to a sandboxed blank copy of Contacts would've been very useful. As a side note, Telegram is the same as WhatsApp. You can't start a chat on a fresh install unless you give it an access to the contacts. There's no way to manually add in-app contacts. Given how "pro-privacy" they are supposed to be, this was rather disconcerting to…

You can, just deny the request and add contacts in Telegram. At least in android, I denied contact list and manually adding relevant ones to telegram.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#517
Their privacy policy is full of tricks and clever wording to confuse you, and stop you from revoking your consent to data processing. (...which they likely have, because you were already using the service before GDPR went into effect)

https://www.whatsapp.com/legal/privacy-policy-eea

I especially like how their email template asks you to fill out a bunch of unnecessary fields and implies that the request might be denied if you don't.

I think most WhatsApp users would just give up at that point.

I think both of these adresses work: - DPO-inquiries@support.whatsapp.com - Objection.eu@support.whatsapp.com

However, I don't really know how to best formulate such a request.

(By the way, the server might refuse to receive you mail, if they don't recognize your domain.)

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#518

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've used Signal for years, and for most of that time only had about three people who also used it in my contacts. My wife recently got her entire extended family to use Signal. She has always refused to use WhatsApp. They all love Signal now, and use it all the time. However, this was during a family crisis. During the Covid lockdowns, many companies I know used Signal as their preferred non corporate communication…

I am moving to Signal too. Group by Group. May not happen over night, but in few weeks

How well do Signal groups work these days? I tried moving friend groups to signal some years ago and even managed to do that for some large ones but the group chat just didn't really work. Keys changed and somehow the group got into a state where some people got messages and others didn't and the only way to fix it seemed to be creating a new group which, for large groups, isn't really an option and everyone ended up going back to whatsapp.

I'd love to use signal with more people but that, and the ux around changing phones means I can't really recommend it to anyone but the most technical of my friends.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#520

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Europe the WhatsApp alternatives are generally framed as tools for pedophiles and organized crime. Even installing them on your phone may alert LEO that you're suspect. This move by Facebook is highly troubling. edit: mass downvote! here are the links. this link talks specifically about signal protocol being used by organized crime https://www.volkskrant.nl/nieuws-achtergrond/waarom-criminel... https://www.securit…

Source? My friends and family have mostly been using Signal for over a year and we never had such worry. I also know laywers, lawmakers, doctors and CEOs who are also using Signal for important communications.

some links in dutch:

https://opgelicht.avrotros.nl/uitzending/gemist/item/bericht... https://www.ad.nl/binnenland/criminelen-handelen-op-berichte... https://www.security.nl/posting/586026/Politie+kraakt+versle...

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