Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

npr.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

511–520 of 1001 posts

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#511

Post by brobdingnagians »

gameswithgo wrote: post #494
coryfklein wrote: post #353

It's the practical erosion of Free Speech. Liberal (small "l" liberal) democracy and liberal science thrives on members: 1. Being willing to admit they may be wrong 2. Having access to a diverse information diet But the past two decades have shown erosion of not only legal Free Speech, but practical free speech: * Whereas previously they were just ignored (or even rebutted), today employees, students, and professors…

I see things almost completely opposite to you. Twenty years ago we had far less diverse access to information. You would get things from your local newspaper, or tv networks. Professionals would work and filter what we see. Today anyone can fire up a blog, twitter, youtube, and start talking about anything. People today thus have been getting exposed to all kinds of ideas, and being taken in by them: the earth is fl…

If people are not equipped to deal with opposing viewpoints and critical thought, then perhaps the social organs of education have failed. Classical Western education prized dissent, debate, and dialectic for thousands of years, but education has changed dramatically in the decades since the 60s. Perhaps it is not for the better. Societies do not always progress upwards towards "more enlightened". Western education has stopped valuing objective truth, dissent, scientific method, and moral integrity. When those are gone, there is very little common ground between those who disagree, because even the method of discourse is gone. That is when force becomes valued by all sides, since they can no longer make any progress by words.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#513

Post by dtauzell »

Vomzor wrote: post #492
dhruvkar wrote: post #47

Are there people here on HN that believe the election was stolen? I haven't seen any evidence, most of the lawsuits haven't borne fruit either. However, I also recognize that there may be blindspots/biases. I'd really like to hear from anyone who believes this, to present a cogent argument. I promise not to attack. I want to hear the argument from the other side. I also beseech the rest of HN to please refrain from a…

This is a good read, if you only read one link of my post let it be this one: https://spectator.us/reasons-why-the-2020-presidential-elect... It's my understanding Trump supporters are mad their concerns aren't taken seriously. Most court cases were dismissed on technicalities, without looking at the provided evidence or testimonies. This is supposed to be the evidence: https://got-freedom.org/evidence/ One example,…

I stopped reading the first article after this:

"We are told that Biden won more votes nationally than any presidential candidate in history. But he won a record low of 17 percent of counties; he only won 524 counties, as opposed to the 873 counties Obama won in 2008. Yet, Biden somehow outdid Obama in total votes."

>>Yet, Biden somehow outdid Obama in total votes.

If you look at the populations of these various counties it isn't puzzling at all.

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-votes-counties-...

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#514

Post by Dirlewanger »

323454 wrote: post #274

Coup-o-meter is right on the line between "preparing for a coup" and "attempted coup" https://isthisacoup.com/

How is a bunch of unarmed people a coup? Yeah, storming the Capitol is a little concerning, but nothing's going to happen. The people that run that side are sheltered urban liberals and don't have the slightest clue as to what it would take for a US coup.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#515

Post by x86_64Ubuntu »

odiroot wrote: post #365
umvi wrote: post #72

How did we arrive to this point where a huge chunk of the population is in one reality and another huge chunk of the population is in another reality? Segregation of information sources? Politicization of media outlets? Self-reinforcing social bubbles? A combination of all of them and more?

Not an American, living in EU. It somehow reminds me of Weimar Germany, with two very fringe (sometimes militant) opposing groups radicalising the rest of the society -- or the rest just ignoring the whole mess and going about their lives.

Who are the two fringe groups? By citing Weimar Germany, and then going into "two fringe groups", you are putting Anti-Nazi organizations on the same moral level as Nazis. You do see the problem with that right?

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#516

Post by nostromo »

gameswithgo wrote: post #494
coryfklein wrote: post #353

It's the practical erosion of Free Speech. Liberal (small "l" liberal) democracy and liberal science thrives on members: 1. Being willing to admit they may be wrong 2. Having access to a diverse information diet But the past two decades have shown erosion of not only legal Free Speech, but practical free speech: * Whereas previously they were just ignored (or even rebutted), today employees, students, and professors…

I see things almost completely opposite to you. Twenty years ago we had far less diverse access to information. You would get things from your local newspaper, or tv networks. Professionals would work and filter what we see. Today anyone can fire up a blog, twitter, youtube, and start talking about anything. People today thus have been getting exposed to all kinds of ideas, and being taken in by them: the earth is fl…

"because most people are not equipped to understand what is reasonable"

I hear this all the time now. But let's be clear -- this is the talk of fascism.

Democracy is built on trusting the populace to self govern. Saying that the populace is too dumb or uninformed to be trusted to self govern is inherently anti-democratic.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#517

Post by mhh__ »

christophilus wrote: post #491
azemetre wrote: post #454

Someone on reddit made an interesting comment about how many foreign agents are using this opportunity to plant bugs in various locations.

I was just thinking that one of those loonies is probably planting a bomb somewhere hidden. Security is going to have to do an insane sweep of the place once before congress is allowed back in. Edit: Also, if someone wanted to go to war with the US, it looks like it'd be pretty trivial to shut down the central leadership... This is quite an event.

> I was just thinking that one of those loonies is probably planting a bomb somewhere hidden.

This is not impossible, CNN are reporting at least two bombs have been rendered safe by EODs

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#518

Post by tossthere »

dhruvkar wrote: post #47

Are there people here on HN that believe the election was stolen? I haven't seen any evidence, most of the lawsuits haven't borne fruit either. However, I also recognize that there may be blindspots/biases. I'd really like to hear from anyone who believes this, to present a cogent argument. I promise not to attack. I want to hear the argument from the other side. I also beseech the rest of HN to please refrain from a…

The media’s ad-supported business model and the effects of branding on consumer behaviors naturally results in an extraordinarily pro-left media environment. The cost of advertising is bid up by brands that benefit from presenting a liberal image, and it drowns out all alternative views.

Just to illustrate, take greenwashing as an example. Companies market their products as being good for the environment because that drives sales, and you can find that message on every shelf in the grocery store. There are many alternative views, very convincing ones in my opinion, that choosing the bottle of water that uses a thinner plastic is still harmful to the environment, and supporting greenwashing by purchasing it actually results in net harm to the environment because it reduces adoption of better options (reusable bottles, tap water) and distracts consumers from issues that could actually have a meaningful impact on climate change (innovation in direct air capture, greener steel production or air travel, a carbon tax, etc).

But how would that message ever reach consumers? It doesn’t make them spend more, so people never hear any of this.

The result is a populace that believes they are saving the world by not asking for a straw at Starbucks.

This is happening at an ideological level. Major brands either declare no political stance, or they declare a pro-left stance. Every celebrity either declares no political opinion, or declares a pro-left political opinion. (Or declares any pro-right opinion, even vaguely or accidentally, and has their brand harmed or destroyed for it.)

I’m something like a Clinton-era liberal, I guess, but the media environment is concerning to me. I would choose Biden over Trump, but the fact that the election was this close even with every major media source being so aggressively and overtly anti-Trump and pro-Biden does concern me. I can’t ignore the fact that if the media environment was more balanced and less ad-driven, it probably would have been an easy victory for Trump. And I do think all of the above is material to the subject of election integrity and the health of our democracy.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#519

Post by x86_64Ubuntu »

smoyer wrote: post #446
umvi wrote: post #72

How did we arrive to this point where a huge chunk of the population is in one reality and another huge chunk of the population is in another reality? Segregation of information sources? Politicization of media outlets? Self-reinforcing social bubbles? A combination of all of them and more?

I think that one facet is implied by Dang's post above ... if we're not careful to have a respectful debate, then we'll end up having a shouting match instead. I used to appreciate grid-lock in DC under the idea that the less they got done, the less they'd do to me. Now I recognize that the best outcomes are a) when the lawmakers reach across the aisle and forge what both sides would consider a compromise and more im…

What does anything you've said have to do with why the Capitol was rushed and occupied by conservatives?

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#520

Post by clarkmoody »

simpleguitar wrote: post #417
umvi wrote: post #72

How did we arrive to this point where a huge chunk of the population is in one reality and another huge chunk of the population is in another reality? Segregation of information sources? Politicization of media outlets? Self-reinforcing social bubbles? A combination of all of them and more?

It's a prelude to a "Two State Solution". Probably not a bad idea to keep the peace. Or more practically, greater freedom for the states, and less federal power.

A peaceful separation is the only tenable long-term solution.
Post reply on HN