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Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

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Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#511

Post by Wowfunhappy »

rgbrenner wrote: post #436

As an alternative to a camera cover, use the camera indicator light to determine if your camera is active I've been thinking about privacy all wrong. I thought it was about preventing access to my data... but Apple has cleared up my misunderstanding and now I know that it's just about being notified when my data is stolen. Everyone feel free to post your credit card numbers... your privacy is secure, since your bank…

Are you seeing the indicator light go on when you aren't actively using the webcam?

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#512

Post by IncRnd »

Godel_unicode wrote: post #386
alunchbox wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a reason Zukerberg's laptop has its mic and camera tapped up. It doesn't matter what device you use unless there's a physical switch to disconnect it'll never be safe. Software can ALWAYS have zero days, just because it hasn't been exploited yet doesn't mean it can't be.

There are also doctors who are anti-vaccine, financial planners who don't max out 401ks, sysadmins with unpatched home systems, etc. Just because someone could possibly know that the thing they're doing is illogical doesn't mean they act on that knowledge. > There's a reason Zukerberg's laptop has its mic and camera tapped up This is an incredibly weakly phrased argument; there's a reason people are flat-earthers as…

https://owl.purdue.edu/owl/general_writing/academic_writing/...

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#513

Post by Widdershin »

airstrike wrote: post #494
coldtea wrote: post #491

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or you know, if you never see a green light, you never had any problem. How about that? Tin foil much?

Unless the LED somehow gets disabled, stops working, or something like it. It's not like the tape is ineffective, so why does Apple care if people use it?

Because it can damage the laptop?

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#514

Post by wl »

neltnerb wrote: post #463
roenxi wrote: post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I expect you are probably correct, but it doesn't really matter. If you don't want to be filmed, the correct engineering approach is not to have a camera pointed at you 24/7. It is a bit like the gun rule of not pointing a gun at things you don't want to shoot - sure, the trigger should be enough of a control, but accidents happen. If you spend your entire life with a camera pointed at your face, your face (and activ…

Indeed, I'm a little surprised Apple didn't follow the Thinkpad approach of simply having a sliding piece with an aperture that extremely obviously blocks the camera. Surely Apple can't seriously think their users would be confused by this and complain... I don't think my desktop computer's webcam is likely to get hacked either but I'm still going to unplug it when I'm not using it. Complex systems are hard to secure…

The original iSight camera had a leaf shutter. It's not a foreign concept to them.

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#515

Post by Wowfunhappy »

blueblob wrote: post #510
coldtea wrote: post #488

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've been thinking about privacy all wrong. I thought it was about preventing access to my data... but Apple has cleared up my misunderstanding and now I know that it's just about being notified when my data is stolen. This comment makes absolutely zero sense in more ways than one. First, in the post Apple also says how you can control exactly which apps have access to the camera in the privacy settings. And, like,…

So you're saying everyone should always be staring at their webcam to make sure the light is not on? It isn't like there's a subfield of Human Factors studying Cognitive load[1], saying that people don't do a good job at what you're saying people should do. Also, have you ever heard of a rootkit? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_load

I always notice when the light goes on, because it's close to my screen, and effectively a form of movement in a place I don't usually see it. It's also quite bright on Apple computers. Is it different for other people?

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#516

Post by barrkel »

coldtea wrote: post #488
rgbrenner wrote: post #436

As an alternative to a camera cover, use the camera indicator light to determine if your camera is active I've been thinking about privacy all wrong. I thought it was about preventing access to my data... but Apple has cleared up my misunderstanding and now I know that it's just about being notified when my data is stolen. Everyone feel free to post your credit card numbers... your privacy is secure, since your bank…

> I've been thinking about privacy all wrong. I thought it was about preventing access to my data... but Apple has cleared up my misunderstanding and now I know that it's just about being notified when my data is stolen. This comment makes absolutely zero sense in more ways than one. First, in the post Apple also says how you can control exactly which apps have access to the camera in the privacy settings. And, like,…

By the time the light comes on, the horse has left the barn.

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#517

Post by hu3 »

miguelmota wrote: post #146
dathinab wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is what I like with the Lenovo webcams in T480s and probably later versions. They have a small slider with the camera protection "glass" build in which can cover the camera and will "show" a red dot if it's covered.

This should really be the standard for laptop webcams. The T480 webcam cover is flush with the bezel and you barely even notice it because it's so subtle. One of my favorite features.

Wow it's actually really neat. Here's a picture if anyone is wondering:

https://i.imgur.com/HrF8jjk.png

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#518

Post by stordoff »

dividedbyzero wrote: post #116
dathinab wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't matter. For many people the trust in integrated laptop cameras has been thoroughly eroded especially in case of Macs. (From my experience by interacting with people not having much tech experience, limited to Germany, maybe also limited to the social cycle(s) I interacted with.) The paradox thing is that the same people who often don't trust webcams in Apple Laptops or Apple All-In-One PCs do not bother or ev…

Maybe that's misguided and naive, but I pretty much trust my phone to protect me from bad actors taking over the camera; I'll have to trust the apps I use that have camera access to not spy on me, but those are few. Until relatively recently, any userspace app on my computer could freely access the camera and microphone, including background processes and malware, so that feels a lot riskier. There seems to be a perm…

I'd also add that my laptop camera is pointed at me[1], and has a decent view of most of my room, whereas the vast majority of the time my phone's camera is pointed directly at my desk or straight up at the ceiling. I'd find my laptop's camera being compromised far more intrusive.

[1] Or least _was_, until I disconnected it - I needed to replace the screen anyway, and I _never_ used the camera, so I just popped the camera out at the same time

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#519

Post by etxm »

didibus wrote: post #501
coldtea wrote: post #491

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or you know, if you never see a green light, you never had any problem. How about that? Tin foil much?

And what if you see a green light? And you're not the one using the camera?

Then something is really up and I’d not be concerned about the cam cover on my computer so much as whatever malware is allowing remote control of the camera.

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#520

Post by inopinatus »

bsder wrote: post #486
inopinatus wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn’t speculation. Opening up hardware to modify the internals is something that covert agencies do, and it’s naive to think that the purpose is equivalent to a simple bug. As someone who posts to Hacker News you are by almost any definition a potential information source or APT vector.

> This isn’t speculation. He didn't say it was. What he said was that his threat model doesn't include state agencies. Many people use their laptops in bed and they probably don't want random people using their laptop webcam to take random nudes. And, while I hear the NSA being quoted a lot, let's be fair, how many of us have the opsec to stand up to a genuine NSA attack? A reasonable goal in thwarting the NSA should…

> > This isn’t speculation. > He didn't say it was.

They didn’t need to use the word to imply it. I did however assume they’re weren’t so self-centeredly solipsistic as to think that their personal choices were the universal general case, or advisable for a typical participant on this forum. But then:

> Besides, if the NSA really wants you, they'll just fabricate the evidence. It's way cheaper.

Again, no. That’s another of those “surely this doesn’t happen” comments, and once again, it is flat wrong. Even setting aside that discrediting/compromising someone is likely to be different agency; just as with bugging them, there are still plenty more reasons besides eavesdropping or coercion, such as industrial espionage, or sabotage, and the main point is that this isn’t theoretical. It happens. Deal with it, don’t deal, up to you, but never assume you can’t be a target.

This is why I only take a disposable laptop and phone across US or Chinese borders. Both have intelligence services with the resources, ability, and inclination toward systematically documenting anyone even remotely interesting.

> As long as some bureaucrat has to put their signature on a piece of paper and get budget to get my stuff, I'm safe against random trawling

If this level of willingness to disregard the entire history of bureaucracy and covert action helps you feel safe, and if you have no direct or indirect ties to any other human being, body of data, or corporate entity that could ever be at any kind of risk, then why not I guess.

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