Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

support.apple.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 990 posts

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#101

Post by GuiA »

Angeo34 wrote: post #95
GuiA wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a laptop with a physical switch for WiFi/Bluetooth in 2006 or so (with a matching orange/blue light that would turn up when you toggled it). The problem was that this was actually all done by a software driver - when I booted into Linux with the laptop I was surprised to find that the bluetooth/wifi modules were on regardless of the switch's position. At the end of the day, unless you have a really nice microsc…

>tens of thousand of hours >electrical engineering Yea gluing a piece of tape is a piece of art even Marx wasn't able to.

The question isn't whether you can add a cover to the product after the fact, it's whether you can trust a switch on a product to do what the manufacturer says it does.

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#102

Post by zulln »

dvfjsdhgfv wrote: post #79
NovemberWhiskey wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>2013: iSeeYou: Disabling the MacBook Webcam Indicator LED https://jscholarship.library.jhu.edu/handle/1774.2/36569 ... applies only to older Mac notebooks from like 2008 period which are long since obsolete according to Apple's announced support policy. >2016: Your Mac’s Camera Can Be Hacked https://www.intego.com/mac-security-blog/your-macs-camera-ca... . ... refers specifically the exploit above. >2016: Former NSA…

The problem is in the design: by not providing a hardware switch, all we have is trust. As we can see from the past, unfortunatly it's not enough.

I thought the LED is now connected to the camera by hardware? You cannot disable it by firmware while the camera is on.

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#103

Post by joezydeco »

planar_vector wrote: post #98

Can someone help me understand the extent of possible damage by having a webcam cover? This might at least inform me if its worth the risk. When Apple says "you might damage your display because the clearance between the display and keyboard is designed to very tight tolerances" , do they mean? - the display itself could have scratches? - the display connector at the hinge has a chance of weakening? - others?

Extra pressure on the LCD cover glass.

On my MBA there's a small metal lip around the lid and the LCD is recessed into that. Something thicker than the lip sitting on the glass would negate the relief the lip provides.

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#104

Post by cjbconnor »

planar_vector wrote: post #98

Can someone help me understand the extent of possible damage by having a webcam cover? This might at least inform me if its worth the risk. When Apple says "you might damage your display because the clearance between the display and keyboard is designed to very tight tolerances" , do they mean? - the display itself could have scratches? - the display connector at the hinge has a chance of weakening? - others?

If the camera cover is too thick it's very easy to crack the display itself by closing the lid too quickly

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#105

Post by Angeo34 »

After reading this help article by Apple I will sell all my Apple devices and never buy anything again from them.

This post by Apple is confirmation to me that they were spying though the camera. In recent years I have seen more and more people do this with nearly every single Mac owner I know doing this (and that's a lot of people). I don't think it's Apple conducting the espionage but rather LEAs of totalitarian undemocratic country (US, China) performing economical espionage.

It makes sense that Germany is the country that is by far most affected by industrial and economical espionage. And it makes sense that nearly all of the spying is conducted by the US and Chins whether it be industrial economical scientifical or political.

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#106

Post by arn »

planar_vector wrote: post #98

Can someone help me understand the extent of possible damage by having a webcam cover? This might at least inform me if its worth the risk. When Apple says "you might damage your display because the clearance between the display and keyboard is designed to very tight tolerances" , do they mean? - the display itself could have scratches? - the display connector at the hinge has a chance of weakening? - others?

MacBook Pro screens have gotten cracked due to camera covers: https://www.macrumors.com/2020/07/10/apple-macbook-camera-co...

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#107

Post by im3w1l-alt »

GuiA wrote: post #89
dvfjsdhgfv wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is in the design: by not providing a hardware switch, all we have is trust. As we can see from the past, unfortunatly it's not enough.

I had a laptop with a physical switch for WiFi/Bluetooth in 2006 or so (with a matching orange/blue light that would turn up when you toggled it). The problem was that this was actually all done by a software driver - when I booted into Linux with the laptop I was surprised to find that the bluetooth/wifi modules were on regardless of the switch's position. At the end of the day, unless you have a really nice microsc…

It's like the halting problem. It's hard to decide whether a given switch works in the general case. But it's possible to design an obviously correct breaker.

Edit: the gnarly thing might be ensuring it doesn't harvest power through data wires or store power in covert capacitors or batteries.

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#108

Post by dathinab »

NovemberWhiskey wrote: post #54
miles wrote: post #23

> "Designed to protect your privacy, Mac notebooks have a camera indicator light to let you know when the camera is on. ... Published Date: July 02, 2020" Perhaps Apple missed these? 2013: iSeeYou: Disabling the MacBook Webcam Indicator LED https://jscholarship.library.jhu.edu/handle/1774.2/36569 2016: Your Mac’s Camera Can Be Hacked https://www.intego.com/mac-security-blog/your-macs-camera-ca... 2016: Former NSA emp…

>2013: iSeeYou: Disabling the MacBook Webcam Indicator LED https://jscholarship.library.jhu.edu/handle/1774.2/36569 ... applies only to older Mac notebooks from like 2008 period which are long since obsolete according to Apple's announced support policy. >2016: Your Mac’s Camera Can Be Hacked https://www.intego.com/mac-security-blog/your-macs-camera-ca... . ... refers specifically the exploit above. >2016: Former NSA…

Doesn't matter.

For many people the trust in integrated laptop cameras has been thoroughly eroded especially in case of Macs. (From my experience by interacting with people not having much tech experience, limited to Germany, maybe also limited to the social cycle(s) I interacted with.)

The paradox thing is that the same people who often don't trust webcams in Apple Laptops or Apple All-In-One PCs do not bother or even think about weather or not the camera in their iPhone could spy on them or weather or not they microphone in webcams could still spy one them...

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#109

Post by dathinab »

gtm1260 wrote: post #20

I was very skeptical of the camera covers, but then through conversations with some of my co-workers, I realized that they weren't being used because people were worried about spies secretly turning on the camera. It was 90% of the time just peace of mind that their camera was actually off, instead of having to find the sometimes hard to see options in video chat programs etc.

That is what I like with the Lenovo webcams in T480s and probably later versions.

They have a small slider with the camera protection "glass" build in which can cover the camera and will "show" a red dot if it's covered.

Post reply on HN