Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The End of OS X

stratechery.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

511–520 of 589 posts

Re: The End of OS X

#511

Post by verandaguy »

_bxg1 wrote: post #102
parasubvert wrote: post #84

I personally think that the MacBook Pro 16 inch is the world’s best laptop, and look forward to see what the next generations can do. But the whole point has been MacOS. I’m not sure what to think of the changes. If they stabilize the mess that was Catalina, then they’re doing the right things, even with the increased iOS-ification of the Mac. If they just slap more Windows 8 style touch gloss on deep and unresolvabl…

> Linux is only free if your time has no value Hah, that's great. I'll have to tuck that one away.

Counterpoint: what some might considered time wasted, others could consider time learning, and when a task gets repetitive, you can automate it. That's what made me fall in love with Linux and BSD.

Re: The End of OS X

#512

Post by _bxg1 »

verandaguy wrote: post #511
_bxg1 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Linux is only free if your time has no value Hah, that's great. I'll have to tuck that one away.

Counterpoint: what some might considered time wasted, others could consider time learning, and when a task gets repetitive, you can automate it. That's what made me fall in love with Linux and BSD.

You can't automate hunting through forums and applying the incantations found therein, and most of the things you learn by doing so (in this context) are only useful for solving a very narrow subset of adjacent problems; they aren't usually general principles you can get a lot of mileage out of later

Re: The End of OS X

#513

Post by coldtea »

banachtarski wrote: post #243
mstade wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I keep reading these types of comments on HN but I just can't relate. I consider myself a power user, and precisely because MacOS feels like the best of Unix combined with customer focus is why I'm wholly invested in the Apple ecosystem. I simply can't relate to the statement that Mac is a "platform that contends with me every step of the way" and I'm curious to know more specifically why you feel this way?

I just "use linux" and I get all the benefits with much better hardware (more memory, disk storage, speed for compilation), better drivers (important especially for GPU support for either graphics/rendering work or machine learning) and my downsides are... what exactly? Itunes, Mail, etc, none of the software shipping with MacOS is actually any good. I don't use Safari. From your perspective, what aspect of the "cust…

>and my downsides are... what exactly

Less cohesion, competing GUI libs/configuration systems/etc, still not 100% GPU support, the Wayland situation, almost non-existent multimedia (video, audio) options (not to mention support for peripherals like audio interfaces), and being at the worse than Apple's arbitrary mercy of your favourite desktop environment programmers (e.g. abrupt transitions and bizarro decisions in Gnome and KDE major versions).

Re: The End of OS X

#514

Post by dzonga »

ukd1 wrote: post #491
fsflover wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> hardware drivers on Mac just work Same for GNU/Linux if you choose the hardware for it (or buy preinstalled).

Try getting hardware accelerated video in Chrome, or FF. Not supported.

hardware acceleration has been supported in FF since 75. however your display scaling has to be 100% on x-org or use it in wayland. Linux desktop would've been perfect if it weren't for the fragmentation. btw currently running ubuntu 20.04

Re: The End of OS X

#515

Post by enjeyw »

willtim wrote: post #435
fluffything wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and my downsides are... what exactly? I've spent zero days, zero hours, zero minutes, and zero seconds fiddling with setting anything up in macOSX over the last 15 years. I manage a bunch of Linux systems, from laptops to desktop to servers, and over the last 15 years I've probably spent months of my life setting up stuff that should have just worked. I use a mac at home and as my dev machine, because I charge quit…

This is anecdotal. My own anecdote is that we've had far more trouble with my wife's MacBook than my NixOS ThinkPad which just works, even after upgrades. The Linux experience depends on the distribution, software and hardware you choose. You need to choose carefully.

> you need to choose carefully.

So here’s the interesting part; can you recommend a distro that is universally the right choice for dev work?

If yes, please tell - I’d love to know!

If the answer is “well it depends a lot on your needs” that’s kinda the point of MacOS right? The fact that making the right distro choice requires serious thought is already problematic (hypothetically)

Re: The End of OS X

#516

Post by coldtea »

lsaferite wrote: post #460
fluffything wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and my downsides are... what exactly? I've spent zero days, zero hours, zero minutes, and zero seconds fiddling with setting anything up in macOSX over the last 15 years. I manage a bunch of Linux systems, from laptops to desktop to servers, and over the last 15 years I've probably spent months of my life setting up stuff that should have just worked. I use a mac at home and as my dev machine, because I charge quit…

> I've spent zero days, zero hours, zero minutes, and zero seconds fiddling with setting anything up in macOSX over the last 15 years. I have to say that I 100% do not believe this statement. You mean you you've never used any wireless connections to your machine? You've never had to set up backups or change audio settings? You've never had to deal with setting up one thing in 15 years? Since when did OSX gain the ab…

>You mean you you've never used any wireless connections to your machine? You've never had to set up backups or change audio settings? You've never had to deal with setting up one thing in 15 years? Since when did OSX gain the ability to read minds?

You seem to confuse using the machine with setting up.

Connecting a wireless connection (picking the SSID, entering the password, etc) is not "setting up". It's merely regularly using the computer.

The setting up we'd rather avoid, and that the parent talks about, would be tinkering to get your wifi chip working with your OS -- which you get the "pleasure" to do on Linux...

Re: The End of OS X

#517

Post by comex »

alacombe wrote: post #433
oneplane wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> https://twitter.com/RDKLInc/status/1251533085734252549 Again, two MacBooks and not millions, as explained in the twitter thread. Again, not defective but locked by the previous owner. Not even remotely related to 'right to repair'. As an owner, I want to be sure that when I lock a device, it's actually unusable to anyone else. So this is good (for me).

> As an owner, I want to be sure that when I lock a device, it's actually unusable to anyone else. So this is good (for me). You want your data to be inaccessible. Not providing a way to factory-reset a perfectly functioning device (say, by replacing a modular storage) is just irresponsible.

No, you want it to be unusable, because this greatly reduces the incentive for theft.

Re: The End of OS X

#518

Post by mikedelfino »

Jtsummers wrote: post #183
sudosysgen wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Selling desktop software to Linux users is only unprofitable because it often sucks and when it doesn't the market share isn't there. Have you ever seen anyone actually pay for Windows or Mac OS? No? right.

macOS is free and has been for a long time, though obviously there are issues with getting it running on non-Apple hardware. Most people do purchase Windows, it's just that the license is included in their hardware purchase.

I didn't know macOS license allowed you to install it on anything other than a Mac.

Re: The End of OS X

#519

Post by wuwuno »

fluffything wrote: post #406
banachtarski wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just "use linux" and I get all the benefits with much better hardware (more memory, disk storage, speed for compilation), better drivers (important especially for GPU support for either graphics/rendering work or machine learning) and my downsides are... what exactly? Itunes, Mail, etc, none of the software shipping with MacOS is actually any good. I don't use Safari. From your perspective, what aspect of the "cust…

> and my downsides are... what exactly? I've spent zero days, zero hours, zero minutes, and zero seconds fiddling with setting anything up in macOSX over the last 15 years. I manage a bunch of Linux systems, from laptops to desktop to servers, and over the last 15 years I've probably spent months of my life setting up stuff that should have just worked. I use a mac at home and as my dev machine, because I charge quit…

I've been a nix guy since 1983. Worked for a major nix player, wrote end user application software on the platform, built chip design software on the platform, wrote device drivers for all kinds of hardware, system admin for years and years, etc. etc. I'm not some newb who just fell off the truck.

In many way *nix is still stuck in 1983 because it's a craftsman's platform, which is why there 10,000 distros, oops 10,001, no 10,002, oh 10,003, ugh! Linux is great on servers, because all servers require craftsman for the care and feeding, and Linux is so much better than Windows in that regard.

I gave up my Linux machines because I'm no longer interested in being my own sys admin. Frankly I was done being my own sys admin back in the 90's but I felt the need to keep my propeller spinning, and stay true to my geek roots.

In 2008 I bought a Mac Pro 8 core machine, and that's still kicking, my son uses it for Machine Learning as part of his graduate program, and it's just as fast now as when I first bought it. It was left behind with the last OS upgrade, but it will work just fine for another 4 or 5 years on the old OS.

In 2009 I still had a Linux laptop, but it was painful back then. With SnowLeopard it became easier to create an maintain a Hackintosh then it was to manage a Linux laptop I was off Linux for good.

For a hobbyist(craftsman) Linux is great, for a server that needs craftsman, Linux is great, for a consumer, buy a Mac.

Re: The End of OS X

#520

Post by ascotan »

What's interesting to me after reading a bunch of the threads here is that consumers are constantly re-evaluating your product.

Mac became popular, not because of hackers, but because it was a great platform for doing graphic design and artwork. Apple put a lot of time and energy into the human factor and it paid off. That and the iphone basically saved the brand from extinction.

It's clear that apple is moving the same direction that Windows did years ago where they're putting the mobile OS on the desktop. I'm wondering how this is going to pay off for desktop/server users. Apples fortunes are in mobile and they're basically ballooning their mobile device inventory with multiple form factors.

I think a lot of what keeps apple users buying more expensive laptops/servers is because they simply 'work'. However, apple has been sneaking in a lot of annoying features that I would expect on mobile devices but I have come to dislike on a desktop. No i don't want my email address tied to my purchases, no I don't some random device in my house popup with a MFA code, no I don't want what I do on my home laptop sync'ed to every mobile device I own.

Usability and human design has always been the 'win' for apple and it's what Linux/Windows can never match (because they don't control all the parts for a uniform customer experience). However, there has always been a line between phones and mobiles devices. That line is in the fact that my laptop doesn't have a GSM/CDMA cell device in it. Because it would be "silly" to take calls on a laptop (i guess). I'm not sure I really like this line blurred. I'm not really sure that my laptop is just another IoT device running the same OS making annoying popups and tweets that I have to cancel while I'm working.

Anywho there is an intangible distinction between a laptop and a phone and by blurring this line I think some people might begin to dislike it. There are other options out there.

Post reply on HN