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Apple, Google ban location tracking in apps using their contact-tracing system

reuters.com

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Re: Apple, Google ban location tracking in apps using their contact-tracing system

#511

Post by HenryBemis »

DanBC wrote: post #140
HenryBemis wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember the desperate efforts of Theresa May to pass the snoopers charter for such a long time. And when she became a PM it was on the top of her list, and she did it. And now with that unethical filthy blob as a PM, I only expect the worse of him and his lackeys.. IMHO Apple and Google should have finished the job and "volunteer" to make the app as well as "donate" some of the storages for the data. Not that I tr…

> I remember the desperate efforts of Theresa May to pass the snoopers charter for such a long time. And when she became a PM it was on the top of her list, and she did it. RIPA was passed in the year 2000 under a Labour government when Jack Straw was Home Secretary.

Are we talking about the same snoopers charter?

From the independent's website dated 19/11/2016:

The Snooper's Charter passed into law this week – say goodbye to your privacy

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/snoopers-charter-theres...

Re: Apple, Google ban location tracking in apps using their contact-tracing system

#512

Post by choward »

kristiandupont wrote: post #508
choward wrote: post #470

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Haha. Are you serious? Equating Apple with "public servants"? Probably the most naive thing I've ever seen.

This kind of dismissal of an analogy bothers me. It's quite common, most often just using the word comparing : "Are you seriously comparing this to ...???" Analogies are a great tool for clarifying similarities and no, that doesn't mean that situation A shares every virtue or vice with situation B. If so, it wouldn't be an analogy, it would be the same.

Apple is a for profit corporation. They are literally the exact opposite of public servants.

Re: Apple, Google ban location tracking in apps using their contact-tracing system

#513

Post by yters »

hyperturtle wrote: post #333
vorpalhex wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not clear from these specifications on how the rolling IDs are associated with a single user after a diagnosis is made, and whether those keys are interlinked. While this explains the phone-to-phone model it does not explain the other half of the system from what I can tell.

I think by design they're not meant to be associated with a single user. A hospital would publish all id's of users that have found positive with covid and each other individual user's themselves will see if they have been in contact recently with one since they have saved all id's they've seen recently

Could network analysis be used to deanonymize these rolling ids? I remember reading that network analysis easily deanonymizes blockchains. Seems same would apply to rolling ids.

Re: Apple, Google ban location tracking in apps using their contact-tracing system

#514

Post by yters »

ldp01 wrote: post #285
axoltl wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple complies with warrants, yes. Do you think they should not?

This just sounds like ad-hominem to me. How is this relevant to the truth of the statements in the parent comment?

Sounds like they answered my question.

Re: Apple, Google ban location tracking in apps using their contact-tracing system

#515

Post by monkeynotes »

azinman2 wrote: post #239

I have to say, working at Apple and knowing all the hard work that goes into this and making sure your data stays private while also being able to combat this disease, it's very frustrating to read a lot of the comments here. I can understand why the public is skeptical, but I feel like as a society we've swung so far away from institutional trust that now nothing good can actually emerge. The anti-vax movement is a…

Give me an example from history where everyday 'papers please' has worked out well.

There are many reasons to challenge broad authoritarian policy. Don't pollute the dialog with anti-vaxers, that shuts down a completely legitimate conversation that should happen in a healthy society.

Accepting wide-spread social tracking unchallenged is worrisome. I should not have to explain to intelligent minds why. The paths you open up when you allow something like social compliance tracking and scoring are just terrifying. Way more terrifying for our children than the immediate health problems.

Re: Apple, Google ban location tracking in apps using their contact-tracing system

#516

Post by C1sc0cat »

andrekandre wrote: post #478
C1sc0cat wrote: post #466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So a democratic system that ignores property rights when it suits the mob that is not actually Democratic.

property rights of companies or individuals? democracy is about individual freedoms and rights, not necessarily those of profit-seeking entities

And are not individual workers "profit-seeking entities"

btw I do own Apple shares so what about my rights not to have those expropriated.

Re: Apple, Google ban location tracking in apps using their contact-tracing system

#517

Post by propogandist »

rexarex wrote: post #399
uluyol wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? I don't think this is accurate. From what I recall, the US was/is spying on the major tech companies and would regularly demand data and place gag orders on those companies. Neither actions are willful forms of data transfer. The first is actually an eternal game of cat and mouse. NSA finds a leak for some data, Google fixes it, new leak, etc. The second is targeted handover of data, and only affects a few indi…

Exactly why they aren’t collecting GPS data and the system is built using anonymous Bluetooth keys, similar to the find my iPhone anonymous network. Can’t hand over what you don’t have.

How does this jive with Google, for instance, using Bluetooth scanning (enabled by default) for high location accuracy? This has been enabled for years and most people are simply aware of it being enabled (outside of HN).

Google has effectively been using Bluetooth scanning and contact tracing (of sorts) as part of their location tracking feature... Now they're turning around and saying they won't track location from Bluetooth scanning? Seems like a BS PR move.

Re: Apple, Google ban location tracking in apps using their contact-tracing system

#518

Post by zajio1am »

stilisstuk wrote: post #368
azinman2 wrote: post #239

I have to say, working at Apple and knowing all the hard work that goes into this and making sure your data stays private while also being able to combat this disease, it's very frustrating to read a lot of the comments here. I can understand why the public is skeptical, but I feel like as a society we've swung so far away from institutional trust that now nothing good can actually emerge. The anti-vax movement is a…

Pertaining to 'institutional trust'. One ought to be able to trust e.g. government. Alas you can not (I am a public servant). One should never unequivocally trust for-profit companies. Also: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w3cszcms

Making such big difference between government and (big) companies seems naive. One should never trust neither government nor companies. They are not that different, both are power structures with vastly more power and different concerns and priorities than an individual.

There are many parallels between them. Companies run on economic power, government run on political (and also economic and hard) power. Companies are kept at bay by market forces, government by democratic process. Both of them may work or fail (monopolies in market, different kinds of identity politics in democratic process). Both companies and government can do extraordinary good (when incentives are well aligned and leaders are competent) and extraordinary bad (when either is not true). Both can empower petty tyrants inside their hierarchies. The reasonable way is to keep both dependent on each other and to limit each to their own domain.

Re: Apple, Google ban location tracking in apps using their contact-tracing system

#519

Post by zajio1am »

andrekandre wrote: post #478
C1sc0cat wrote: post #466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So a democratic system that ignores property rights when it suits the mob that is not actually Democratic.

property rights of companies or individuals? democracy is about individual freedoms and rights, not necessarily those of profit-seeking entities

Corporations are just legal conctructs to easily define rights and powers of their owners. So property rights of companies are just property rights of their owners.

Re: Apple, Google ban location tracking in apps using their contact-tracing system

#520

Post by AlexandrB »

azinman2 wrote: post #239

I have to say, working at Apple and knowing all the hard work that goes into this and making sure your data stays private while also being able to combat this disease, it's very frustrating to read a lot of the comments here. I can understand why the public is skeptical, but I feel like as a society we've swung so far away from institutional trust that now nothing good can actually emerge. The anti-vax movement is a…

I think I trust Apple more than any other FAANG company, but that's like saying you're the cleanest hog in the pen. Even if it's true, it doesn't necessarily mean much and you're still tarred by association. The tech industry has burned through trust at a blistering pace in the last decade and it's hard not to be cynical.
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