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EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

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Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

#511

Post by jonplackett »

FeepingCreature wrote: post #435
jonplackett wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some sites make you turn off every ad partner individually! And it’s not individual sites going rogue. It’s clearly a box from an ad network. Not sure how you haven’t come across these.

I'd say more that the majority I've seen have been proper, and the nonproper ones I've just not looked at and backed out. Not like I'm starved for reading choice.

OK found an example - this is Reuters. A big proper site.

Go try and get into this site while declining cookies

It just pops up the consent dialogue full screen again (on mobile at least) until you accept

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-autos-electric-norway/ele...

Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

#512

Post by ClumsyPilot »

scarface74 wrote: post #487
ClumsyPilot wrote: post #486

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple would not even be allowed to sell a phone that had a standard it invented in house, as it would cause interference with other radio equipment. Radio frequencies are some of the most strictly regulated things on the planet, and misusing them will land you in jail in most countries.

The right to use radio frequencies are auctioned by the government. If Apple bought the rights to use the frequencies it could do whatever it wanted with them. For instance, Sprint had WiMAX for 4G before they had LTE, two carriers have GSM and two have CDMA. The government didn’t mandate the protocols nor did they force the carriers to use the same protocol or the phone makers to support both. You also had the propr…

Government absolutely do care what you do with the frequencies. The UK government auctioned 5G frequencies for a specific purpose. It took great pains to clear these frequencies, they weren't just lying around unused.

All the protocols you listed are open for adoption by various manufacturers. Apple absolutely would not be allowed to use them for a private protocol they keep to themselves. Airwaves are a public good, not private property. They even come with coverage obligations.

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/about-ofcom/latest/media/media-rele...

Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

#513

Post by scarface74 »

tripzilch wrote: post #498
scarface74 wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Apple introduced a phone that didn’t comply with the 5G standard it wouldn’t be able to interoperate and would be less useful. But the government didn’t mandate that iMessage had to be compatible with SMS (even though it is somewhat) nor did they mandate that AirDrop had to interoperate with a standard. Should the government also mandate a standard messaging protocol must be used or that it has to work with SMS? S…

> Should the government also mandate a standard messaging protocol must be used or that it has to work with SMS? Wait, are there places in the EU where is SMS is still that popular?

Is this the new version of the old Slashdot meme - “Does anyone still watch TV? I haven’t owned a TV in 15 years.”

https://www.smseagle.eu/2017/03/06/daily-sms-mobile-statisti...

Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

#514

Post by scarface74 »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #512
scarface74 wrote: post #487

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The right to use radio frequencies are auctioned by the government. If Apple bought the rights to use the frequencies it could do whatever it wanted with them. For instance, Sprint had WiMAX for 4G before they had LTE, two carriers have GSM and two have CDMA. The government didn’t mandate the protocols nor did they force the carriers to use the same protocol or the phone makers to support both. You also had the propr…

Government absolutely do care what you do with the frequencies. The UK government auctioned 5G frequencies for a specific purpose. It took great pains to clear these frequencies, they weren't just lying around unused. All the protocols you listed are open for adoption by various manufacturers. Apple absolutely would not be allowed to use them for a private protocol they keep to themselves. Airwaves are a public good,…

But yet, we have an existence proof that a cellular carrier in the US - Sprint - had its own 4G protocol - WiMAX - that was only supported by Sprint

https://www.rcrwireless.com/20160401/opinion/worst-week-bold...

Not only that, even before Sprint acquired Nextel, Nextel was using the spectrum it had for its own proprietary wireless protocols and it wasn’t Big Government that killed either initiative - it was people exercising their own free will not buying Nextel phones and later WiMAX phones.

Most would link Sprint’s WiMAX decision back to its acquisition of Nextel Communications, which wrapped in 2005, and brought with it a significant load of 2.5 GHz spectrum licenses with specific build out dates. Nextel prior to being acquired had been testing various IP-based mobile broadband technologies, including various proprietary ones like Flash-OFDM and TDD-UMTS, as well as WiMAX and HSDPA.

Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

#515

Post by scarface74 »

tripzilch wrote: post #506
scarface74 wrote: post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We’ve seen what happens when corporations can’t get their shit together - VHS/Beta Blu-ray/HD-DVD - the market decided. We didn’t need government to mandate a standard.

We've also seen what happens when markets can't get their shit together.

Yes. You have to buy new cords and carry two of them around - I can’t imagine the suffering that must cause....

Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

#516

Post by scarface74 »

wsy wrote: post #509
scarface74 wrote: post #485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EU had no affect on the browser wars. How do you explain that Chrome took over in the US. Again, Google made a better browser while Microsoft was sleep at the wheel. Microsoft is just as dominant with Office and desktop PCs as it was in the 90s. The web and then mobile just made the desktop less relevant.

Of course, everybody can interpret history as they like. The fine handed out by EU to Microsoft was of course also a deterrent against further similar attempts, and Microsoft afterwards changed their tactics not only in EU, but world-wide. Or did you not get the Windows browser choice menu in US?

No we not did not get the Browser choice in the US. That’s kind of the perfect control to show that government policy didn’t have any effect. Chrome took over in both markets.

Also it wasn’t the choice of browsers that made Windows less relevant. It was that everything moving to the web made Windows less relevant and that gave to the rise of the modern mobile platforms now that you could do everything on the web that most people cared about and then the app economy.

What do you really think had a bigger impact on even IE losing marketshare, browser choice or the most popular website destination - Google - giving prime advertising real estate to Chrome and Google bundling Chrome with third party apps left and right?

We also see from FB that the little fines that governments hand out don’t stop corporations from behaving in a way that the government doesn’t like.

Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

#517

Post by FeepingCreature »

jonplackett wrote: post #511
FeepingCreature wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say more that the majority I've seen have been proper, and the nonproper ones I've just not looked at and backed out. Not like I'm starved for reading choice.

OK found an example - this is Reuters. A big proper site. Go try and get into this site while declining cookies It just pops up the consent dialogue full screen again (on mobile at least) until you accept https://www.reuters.com/article/us-autos-electric-norway/ele...

Manage Consent -> Decline All?

edit: Oh wow you have to do that per click. Wow.

Let's hope they get sued for that.

Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

#518

Post by tripzilch »

scarface74 wrote: post #515
tripzilch wrote: post #506

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We've also seen what happens when markets can't get their shit together.

Yes. You have to buy new cords and carry two of them around - I can’t imagine the suffering that must cause....

I was talking about the planet.

Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

#519

Post by tripzilch »

scarface74 wrote: post #513
tripzilch wrote: post #498

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Should the government also mandate a standard messaging protocol must be used or that it has to work with SMS? Wait, are there places in the EU where is SMS is still that popular?

Is this the new version of the old Slashdot meme - “Does anyone still watch TV? I haven’t owned a TV in 15 years.” https://www.smseagle.eu/2017/03/06/daily-sms-mobile-statisti...

No I'm genuinely asking whether and where SMS is still that popular in the Europe (your link talks about US and "worldwide"). I know many/most people in the US use SMS text for messaging.

But as far as I'm aware in Europe everybody is on WhatsApp, Telegram or something similar that uses data. But maybe I'm wrong and there's still some holdout EU country still texting, that is why I asked. But they generally all have pretty good data plans.

Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

#520

Post by scarface74 »

tripzilch wrote: post #519
scarface74 wrote: post #513

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this the new version of the old Slashdot meme - “Does anyone still watch TV? I haven’t owned a TV in 15 years.” https://www.smseagle.eu/2017/03/06/daily-sms-mobile-statisti...

No I'm genuinely asking whether and where SMS is still that popular in the Europe (your link talks about US and "worldwide"). I know many/most people in the US use SMS text for messaging. But as far as I'm aware in Europe everybody is on WhatsApp, Telegram or something similar that uses data. But maybe I'm wrong and there's still some holdout EU country still texting, that is why I asked. But they generally all have…

You did see the part about 4.2 billion people use SMS daily? What’s the likelihood that that doesn’t include the EU.
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