Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

appleinsider.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

501–510 of 525 posts

Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

#501

Post by tripzilch »

microtherion wrote: post #53
martin-adams wrote: post #37

Let’s say this rule was in place 10 years ago and we standardised on micro USB. How would it have been possible to advance to the next generation of technology like USB-C. This feels that it’s banking on USB-C being forever future proofed or wireless connections does everything we ever need.

Micro USB would be kind of mediocre. But if the rule had been in place 20 years ago, cell phones today might be featuring SCSI connectors. And of course, all laptops would be mandated to have VGA connectors, eliminating a ton of conference room presentation guesswork.

> But if the rule had been in place 20 years ago, cell phones today might be featuring SCSI connectors.

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/RC-9-2020-0070...

"5. Points out that the Commission, without hampering innovation, should ensure that the legislative framework for a common charger will be scrutinised regularly in order to take into account technical progress; reiterates the importance of research and innovation in this domain to improve existing technologies and come up with new ones;"

Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

#502

Post by tripzilch »

microtherion wrote: post #451
oxfordmale wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The law doesn't define the protocol. Apple could introduce USB-D as superior standard provided it is not proprietary. If this is a superior standard, other companies will adapt it too, becoming the new standard charger.

I believe you are mistaken. The EU resolution calls for the development of "a common standard" (to be updated from time to time): https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/RC-9-2020-0070... Implementing a different standard, even if it is non-proprietary, won't do.

They call on the industry to agree on a common standard. 15 years ago. They explicitly do not mandate the protocol.

Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

#503

Post by tripzilch »

nsajko wrote: post #91
the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How would it have been possible to advance to the next generation of technology like USB-C. The law does no say what a common charger is. Manufacturers are free to migrate to a new standard.

Presumably it is on the Commission to decide that USB-C is to be the next standard, and only then will there be a proposal for a law. (We are not yet talking about a law.)

> Presumably it is on the Commission to decide that USB-C is to be the next standard, and only then will there be a proposal for a law.

No, it literally says they're calling on the industry to agree on a common standard.

Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

#504

Post by 8fingerlouie »

londons_explore wrote: post #301
culturestate wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not being able to charge from a backpack or a car is a non-starter for me. In this hypothetical future you'd have to replace the power bank and charging cables that you currently own, but you'll be able to achieve both of those goals just fine. You can already buy power banks[1] with built-in charging coils, and I imagine some enterprising company will be along with a svelte USB-to-Qi-coil cable that suctions onto…

So far, efficiency is kinda low for use with portable battery packs. You'd need to carry around a pack twice the size.

I carry a 10000 mAh battery pack[1] in my jacket[2], which besides powering the heater elements inside the jacket also provides wireless charging to my phone.

I don't know about effectiveness, but 20-30 minutes of wireless charging gives 60% + of battery power on my phone, and while i don't regularly charge my phone fully in the jacket, only top it off, i charge the battery pack once every week or so, and it is very rarely at 0%

[1]: https://www.amazon.co.uk/SANAG-Wireless-Portable-10000mAh-Co...

[2]: https://www.ministryofsupply.com/products/mens-mercury-intel...

Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

#505

Post by tripzilch »

thu2111 wrote: post #492
dijit wrote: post #423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re inferring something that isn’t true. The EU is not “good” or “bad” it just “is”. They do good things and bad things, however there’s a very clear delineation between pre-2004 and post-2004. It is very clear that even if it is not a direct cause then it is at least a large push. USB as a a standard existed for sure, but rarely if ever used on phones. (The only phone I can think of is the RAZR and that was actua…

I'm not sure what event in 2004 you're referring to. The EU Common Charging Standard dates from 2010: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_external_power_supply#H... USB has been used in phones for a very long time indeed.

The EU already told the industry to come up with a common standard, before that. This is the result of that call to action.

Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

#506

Post by tripzilch »

scarface74 wrote: post #385
Can_Not wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Technically the "nanny state" was for the corporations who proved they couldn't get their shit together.

We’ve seen what happens when corporations can’t get their shit together - VHS/Beta Blu-ray/HD-DVD - the market decided. We didn’t need government to mandate a standard.

We've also seen what happens when markets can't get their shit together.

Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

#507

Post by Miraste »

dhxudkwjwhh wrote: post #488
atoav wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the EU isn't there to pamper big corporations, it is there to strengthen the rights of consumers and citizens by strengthening competition. If your company can't survive without selling adapters or locking in customers with unnecessary differing standards (and therefor avoiding competition), maybe it isn't really healthy to begin with. I would have a different perspective if there was really a practical reaso…

How is there no practical reason? The practical reason is implied by context. Apple is among the single most profitable companies in existence, consumers vote with their wallets and their wallets overwhelmingly vote in a manner that supports Apple's decisions. It's a very European thing to point at the purpose of a government entity and assume it's true. Helping consumers? If consumers prefer universal cable standard…

Isn't it possible that consumers don't like needing separate proprietary chargers for iPhones, but it's a small enough part of the overall iOS experience it doesn't noticeably harm sales? After all, phone ecosystems are a duopoly. It's not an area where free market arguments hold water. This legislation lets the industry decide on their own standard. Do you think customers would also enjoy incompatible Wi-Fi standards, or cell modems?

Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

#508

Post by thu2111 »

tripzilch wrote: post #505
thu2111 wrote: post #492

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure what event in 2004 you're referring to. The EU Common Charging Standard dates from 2010: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_external_power_supply#H... USB has been used in phones for a very long time indeed.

The EU already told the industry to come up with a common standard, before that. This is the result of that call to action.

When? The MoU was signed in 2009. USB has been delivering power for much longer than that.

This claim the EU politely requested the whole tech industry to develop a standardised power cable and they leapt into action because such a brilliant idea had never occurred to anyone before doesn't match the timelines of the actual tech development. USB was around a long time, was happening anyway and the non-binding MoU the EU demanded firms sign had no impact on the only firm that still wanted to do their own cable, as Apple's actions proved quite directly.

To re-emphasise the point, if the EU had passed binding regulations like this at an earlier stage in its life we might have never had MagSafe. Or we might have ended up standardising on barrel connectors.

Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

#509

Post by wsy »

scarface74 wrote: post #485
wsy wrote: post #483

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Windows was lock-in in late 90s and early 2000s. That was not only a fear. EU forced Microsoft to open Windows during that time. And that was a good thing. I don't want to wait decades until that stuff is sorted out by obsolescence. Where is the advantage in waiting for the market? However, no one forces you to live in the EU. Even countries can exit it. Let us do our thing, and you can do your thing. The market will…

EU had no affect on the browser wars. How do you explain that Chrome took over in the US. Again, Google made a better browser while Microsoft was sleep at the wheel. Microsoft is just as dominant with Office and desktop PCs as it was in the 90s. The web and then mobile just made the desktop less relevant.

Of course, everybody can interpret history as they like. The fine handed out by EU to Microsoft was of course also a deterrent against further similar attempts, and Microsoft afterwards changed their tactics not only in EU, but world-wide. Or did you not get the Windows browser choice menu in US?

Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

#510

Post by freepor »

Miraste wrote: post #507
dhxudkwjwhh wrote: post #488

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is there no practical reason? The practical reason is implied by context. Apple is among the single most profitable companies in existence, consumers vote with their wallets and their wallets overwhelmingly vote in a manner that supports Apple's decisions. It's a very European thing to point at the purpose of a government entity and assume it's true. Helping consumers? If consumers prefer universal cable standard…

Isn't it possible that consumers don't like needing separate proprietary chargers for iPhones, but it's a small enough part of the overall iOS experience it doesn't noticeably harm sales? After all, phone ecosystems are a duopoly. It's not an area where free market arguments hold water. This legislation lets the industry decide on their own standard. Do you think customers would also enjoy incompatible Wi-Fi standard…

Sure it’s possible but the opposite is also possible and politicians shouldn’t be trying to figure this out. There clearly isn’t some major harm to the world being caused by two different power standards. I can say that I personally vastly prefer Lightning to USB-C. Politicians should focus on the areas where the harm has been clearly established, like in privacy, not some dubious guesses about what power cable people like. And in other places where Apple has their own standard, like AirPlay and AirDrop, I prefer it to the open standard, so I’d prefer if politicians didn’t make laws standardizing the worse option.
Post reply on HN