Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links • Hacker News Board

Re: Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

#511

Post by orbital-decay » Wed, Oct 16, 2019, 8:07 PM UTC

bonoboTP wrote: post #281

orbital-decay wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've tried to educate many people on a personal level and failed miserably almost every time, being perceived and dismissed as an evangelist for some weird ideology they don't care about (and I took it very slow and tried really, really hard not to sound as one). Maybe they are right, after all? Who am I to dictate or even influence what they should care about, especially if they don't experience that clearly. People…

But it is actually an ideology... It's the same as why people don't care about climate change or other far removed things from everyday life. For the normal, everyday non-tech user, they see that all their friends use these apps and nothing has ever happened to them. The FBI didn't come knocking, they weren't fired from their jobs or anything like that. From their point of view, why should they care about repositorie…

Funny that the same could have been said about actual literacy several hundred years ago. Who ever needs to be able to read and write in their everyday life? Why should I care? It's a thing far removed from everyday life, unless you're a trader or a priest or a scholar or some other expert. Today you can't imagine an adult person being unable to read, in most of the world.

Except the tech is already there, and you use it with or without understanding. You use a credit card, electricity, Internet and other communications, some kind of computing device, your entire life depends on it. And IT shapes your life way more than any other tech, so it probably makes sense to get a grasp on the general concepts at least. No need to become an IT expert, similarly to how there's no need to become a Shakespeare to be literate. And yes, being tech illiterate can fuck you up very visibly and personally, for example by losing money from a stolen credit card.

Re: Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

#512

Post by yellowapple » Wed, Oct 16, 2019, 8:10 PM UTC

scarhill wrote: post #482

sleepychu wrote: post #477

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A great way to have nobody come to your parties.

Or a good way to avoid having party guests trash your house.

Can't have party guests trash your house if nobody comes to your party!

taps finger on temple

Re: Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

#513

Post by catalogia » Wed, Oct 16, 2019, 8:17 PM UTC

diminoten wrote: post #507

catalogia wrote: post #488

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Busting somebody's balls because they're not abstracting away something as significant as 27% seems unreasonable. It shouldn't surprise you that somebody who dislikes giving 30% to apple would be proportionally less concerned about giving 3% to Visa.

It's hardly unreasonable; if their problem is, as they've said, "giving money to Apple", then it's not the amount, but the fact that Apple gets a cut at all. And none of this is surprising, merely inconsistently applied logic. I fully understand what is happening here, clarifying statements will not help.

> then it's not the amount

Says you, but obviously that's not how most people approach matters like this. Most people can reasonably be assumed to think that differences in degree, particularly an order of magnitude apart, are very relevant. At best you're being a pedantic pain in the ass, hassling people for not explicitly stating that a difference in degree is being considered, when such considerations should be reasonably assumed even when not explicitly stated.

Re: Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

#514

Post by FourthProtocol » Wed, Oct 16, 2019, 8:47 PM UTC

ngold wrote: post #496

tolmasky wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but why ? If the rules clearly said "no chess games", one could say "that ends the discussion of why chess games are denied", or you could further ask "but why are no chess games allowed?". Is it because Google plans on having their own Google-Chess someday and thus is preemptively preventing competition? Is there a technical or regulatory reason chess games aren't allowed? That's the question (at least for me)…

Because it saves google some hassle in policing shady monetary schemes. As soon as money is involved it is a massive hassle. Going outside of established monetary policy opens up a massive hole of shenanigans. Not to mention every app you download would have huge incentive to put up endless patreon/donate buttons that would go outside of googles carefully crafted walled garden, yet they would be held responsible for…

So they want the app store but as soon as it gets comlex or difficult to manage they kick up their heels and ban apps rather than stepping up to the plate and owning thier problem.

Re: Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

#515

Post by fouric » Wed, Oct 16, 2019, 8:47 PM UTC

dessant wrote: post #491

WireGuard was reinstated after Jason has submitted a new version which does not contain a donation link. The issue has not been solved, and Google did not yet contact maintainers to clarify whether they would be allowed to have a donation link in WireGuard. Several other open source apps are still missing from Google Play, including andOTP. While WireGuard was bought back online, version 0.0.20191013 was briefly made…

If it really is because of public scrutiny, IMHO we shouldn't actually treat it as if it happened at all - a corporation that only responds to public pressure like this should be shamed and avoided.

(slightly expanded version at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20829422)

Re: Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

#516

Post by lawnchair_larry » Wed, Oct 16, 2019, 8:56 PM UTC

iamleppert wrote: post #400

In an ironic twist, our app that Google supported via Summer of Code was removed. Whoever came up with this policy and started enforcing it at Google is completely tone-deaf, needs to be fired and publicly called out so we can set an example as a community that this sort of behavior will not be tolerated. We have contacted engineering leadership at Google and they are in the process of figuring out who it is internal…

Yes, let’s publicly shame and fire people over business decisions we disagree with. Cancel culture!

Re: Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

#517

Post by y49 » Wed, Oct 16, 2019, 9:00 PM UTC

greggman2 wrote: post #382

tolmasky wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but why ? If the rules clearly said "no chess games", one could say "that ends the discussion of why chess games are denied", or you could further ask "but why are no chess games allowed?". Is it because Google plans on having their own Google-Chess someday and thus is preemptively preventing competition? Is there a technical or regulatory reason chess games aren't allowed? That's the question (at least for me)…

My guess is it's ripe for fraud. Find open source app, put on Google with your donation platform of choice, profit! By requiring government registration my guess is the hope is both that the fraudsters will be caught or dissuaded and if they do make it past the government registration then when the real devs complain Google can say "take it up with the government. They mis-licensed. We just followed their license"

My guess is you missed the point of Free Software. Anyone can use it in any way, including selling for profit. "Free" as in "freedom", you know

Recently I created a small homepage with different re-packaged versions of Java: https://jdk.dev

All that alternative packages are free of charge but they have extended support from a number of big companies. All these companies funded separately, there's no common place for donations or something.

That's totally ok in the world of Free Software. Pick any source code you want, repackage, rebrand it, sell it as you wish and may the Force be with you. People do it all the time.

Re: Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

#518

Post by a3_nm » Wed, Oct 16, 2019, 9:13 PM UTC

bdcravens wrote: post #466

tolmasky wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but why ? If the rules clearly said "no chess games", one could say "that ends the discussion of why chess games are denied", or you could further ask "but why are no chess games allowed?". Is it because Google plans on having their own Google-Chess someday and thus is preemptively preventing competition? Is there a technical or regulatory reason chess games aren't allowed? That's the question (at least for me)…

Their house, their rules.

Smartphone app stores are a duopoly, so I don't think Google should have total freedom to decide what they allow and what they don't.

Re: Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

#519

Post by a3_nm » Wed, Oct 16, 2019, 9:14 PM UTC

anchpop wrote: post #334

enriquto wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> (...) puts open source projects in a difficult position, and appears to be overly hostile towards funding open source development. This is the problem of developing free software on a non-free platform. They have absolute control of your work under their own terms, no matter how ridiculous they are. I never understood why the google play store is a socially acceptable idea for free software developers.

It's the most widely used software distribution channel in the world. I'm sure most would prefer to distribute on F-Droid but open source developers want their apps to be successful too.

... and this is why it's a good idea to use F-Droid instead of the Google Play Store if you can.

Re: Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

#520

Post by alacombe » Wed, Oct 16, 2019, 9:22 PM UTC

rleigh wrote: post #468

alacombe wrote: post #452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hazardous at best to assume the state of something with so much variables. As for continuing being GAFA advocate (while still thinking they should be compelled to open up "Stores" to competition), vertical integration provides enough economy of scale to achieve ever greater complex things. Also, 1) you can't just "break-up" any GAFA. They're just gonna move out of State and be welcomed somewhere else, and 2) wha…

You're right, you can't just create competition out of thin air. The competition already existed at that time . Part of the abuse of their monopoly position was to use the dominance of Windows to also capture other markets, including the Office market, Web browsers, etc. We would have had a far healthier ecosystem if the monopoly had been broken up. Look at where Lotus SmartSuite, Corel Office, StarOffice, and all th…

Just because there was competition doesn't mean it was any good, nor that it was gonna last. Microsoft "decline" largely came from new technology they laughed at (smartphone and cloud computing) and to a large extend, missed on. Such an evolution is typical from the high inertia inherent to such a large structure. It forced them to evolve, for the better. Same will likely happen over time with Google/Apple, their structure will get more and more rigid, they will stop providing as much benefit to the user, competition will appear and their will be forced to open up. Apple is already starting to lose ground on the self-repair front, and both are more and more called out on the rigidity of their stores.

Amazon/Facebook is a different problem. Amazon is colliding with the old retail chain and weakening their power in DC (Amazon is not doing anything more that has been done in brick and mortar stores ~forever). As for Facebook, it is threatening Governments themselves (privacy is just just a convenient red-herring).