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European Parliament approves copyright reform

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Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#511

Post by [deleted] »

ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #391
bad_user wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, but the Brexit referendum is the perfect example of choices that should not be made directly by the population, because it lacks the competence to foresee the effects or even to distinguish fact from fiction. If you told UK citizens that the choice is in fact for a No Deal Brexit and what that will mean, they wouldn't have voted for Brexit. However the population was lied to about the economic benefits and vot…

>Sorry, but the Brexit referendum is the perfect example of choices that should not be made directly by the population, because it lacks the competence to foresee the effects or even to distinguish fact from fiction. I still find it hard to not value your own autonomy. For thousands of years, wars of independence were fought for this exact purpose. You might not value it, but I don't think you can attack others for p…

[deleted]

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#512

Post by ABCLAW »

clarkmoody wrote: post #435

It's called counter-revolution. Many revolutionary movements are eventually co-opted by elites (often the elites of the overthrown system) for their own purposes. Sometimes the new system put in place after the counter-revolution is worse than the system the original revolution sought to overthrow. The cypherpunks foresaw the dystopian surveillance state decades before the reality and tried to get out in front of it…

This isn't a fight between elites and the proles - most people who are framing the result today as such have not read the text of article 11 and 13. And I don't blame them, most articles on the matter conspicuously refuse to link the text, for some reason.

This is a fight between titans of industry in two different verticals. Content is upset that publishing is getting all of the money - and a brief examination of the valuations in those respective industries shows they're probably right on that front. Is this the optimal tool to right those scales? Probably not, but it certainly isn't constructed to kick Grandma's bakery and blogroll website off the internet at the behest of Big Bread.

To the extent that Articles 11 and 13 have problems (and they do) they should be addressed, but the fearmongering makes it very difficult to actually talk about those issues and their context properly.

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#513

Post by zaarn »

trickstra wrote: post #477
zaarn wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EU Elections are coming up. Vote for the pirate faction in your country or check who voted what and only vote for those parties that voted against A13 or if there are none, parties that are vocal against A13. Same goes for your countries own election cycle.

where can I get the lists of names and how they voted for this specific bill?

You'd have to look for your country, Julia Reda (senficon on Twitter) published a list, I'm unsure if it's for all MEPs, Martin Sonneborn (MartinSonneborn on Twitter) published a simple graphic for german MEPs.

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#514

Post by adev_ »

nicc wrote: post #233
paganel wrote: post #130

> France’s current batch of national politicians have consistently advocated for the worst parts of the Directive, and the Macron administration may seek to grab an early win for the country’s media establishment. Macron is a crook. If any other president from any other civilized country would have sent the military to guard against its citizens' street protests [1] then that president would have been (rightly) calle…

In Europe it's normal to use the military for a variety of reasons. Specially since military draft was made voluntary, in Italy the military are used to walk around at train stations, help out in case of protests, etc. Actually, in Italy we have two institutions that are seen as "police": Police and Carabinieri. Carabinieri are exactly the same, but they're part of the military. As for: > Macron is still seen by a la…

> The media is usually biased towards left-wing ideology, with a globalist spin. Since Macron embodies both those ideals, it's easy to see why he gets helped by the media.

Ahahah, the good joke.

Most medias, everywhere world-wide are owned by billionars and follow the media-line of their owner. These guys are of course, conservative, right side, sometimes liberal .... but definitively not "left".

Qualifying guys like Ruppert Murdoch, Bloomberg, Dassault or Bollore (in France) of "left" ( or the medias they own ) is as idiotic as calling Trump a communist.

> I have no idea why the French would think that a banker who married his high-school teacher would be one of them. He definitely turned out NOT to be on the side of the average French citizen.

Maybe because the other choice was the daughter of a old extreme right dynasty from a party funded by old nazis and negationists. Maybe.

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#515

Post by clarkmoody »

DCKing wrote: post #496
clarkmoody wrote: post #435

It's called counter-revolution. Many revolutionary movements are eventually co-opted by elites (often the elites of the overthrown system) for their own purposes. Sometimes the new system put in place after the counter-revolution is worse than the system the original revolution sought to overthrow. The cypherpunks foresaw the dystopian surveillance state decades before the reality and tried to get out in front of it…

I think it politicizes the early internet too much to call it a revolution in the political sense. The early internet was a place of experimentation with new communication, but I think it goes way too far to call it a 'movement'. By its nature it attracted a bunch of people with particular political persuasions. But it wasn't only people of those persuasions, and neither was the entire thing an instrument for those p…

Not political, no. A technological revolution, in the disruptive sense.

We can look to other disruptive technologies over time to see how the entrenched / favored industries handled the change. The story is mostly the same, but the players are different.

The mercatilist impulse is to freeze economics to ensure current levels of profit via state fiat. Even companies that start out revolutionary/scrappy/innovative become conservative after they acquire large market share. It's more important to maintain profit levels, quarterly earnings, and share price than it is to make a risky attempt at another disruptive innovation. Unfortunately, that impulse too often leads them to lobby the legislature or crown.

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#516

Post by zaarn »

Shivetya wrote: post #425
zaarn wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EU Elections are coming up. Vote for the pirate faction in your country or check who voted what and only vote for those parties that voted against A13 or if there are none, parties that are vocal against A13. Same goes for your countries own election cycle.

American here. Now I know some nations within the EU have proportional voting but I have to ask, how difficult is it to unseat a politician? How difficult is it to do so within their party, are there the equivalent of the US primary system? For the US, unless they are not running the chance of reelection is very high so without some sort of political shift not governed by one of our two parties is near impossible.

Depends on the memberstate, in germany the politicians are seated by the parties with longer lists on which you can vote.

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#517

Post by fhrow4484 »

ABCLAW wrote: post #474
koonsolo wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because politicians are stupid. If you look at the pros and cons of this law, Europe has nothing to gain. Not for the people, not for the companies. This is a law that works to mainly serve the big copyright holders, and in a second degree, impacts the big tech multinationals (=read US companies) less than the smaller ones. It makes no sense at all. Especially since all member states will have their own law. "Does ou…

This isn't a law that serves multinationals; quite the opposite. The proportionality requirement in the text of Art. 13 is more onerous to larger corporations. If you're a tiny blog with a banner ad or two, you're not getting slapped off the internet for having a comments field, because it isn't proportional to require cost and complexity increases of multiple orders of magnitude to police your comments section. Unle…

When reading comments like this it feels like: there's no ambitious startup in Europe to become one of the large companies. Because now a startup has less than 3 years to add this content filtering, which provided as a service or not, is going to cost €€€.

Do you think Spotify would be able to grow if it was created on March 27 2019 instead of 2008?

A successful Content filtering as a service (compliance.ly & co. In your example), assuming it gets adopted by all major websites, seems like it would shift the problem to an even bigger gatekeeper than YouTube, how is this a good thing?

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#518

Post by isostatic »

clagio wrote: post #126
sprash wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem here is that the backroom deal of two countries (Germany and France) now has influence over countries that are totally unrelated like e.g. Finland. This turns the EU into a tyranny where might is right. Why should Germans have a say about how the internet should work in Finland? The EU is also already dying. Brexit will come soon and Italy is on it's way out. What the remnants will be is unclear but the E…

Italy is not really on the way out, and the few politicians who supported the idea changed their mind after brexit

I'm bemused by the idea of France (74) and Germany (96) - totaling 23%, controlling the parliament alone.

I haven't looked at who voted, but I suspect that the votes aren't on a country-by-country basis either.

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#519

Post by hokus »

gpm wrote: post #411
_bxg1 wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other than VPNs and Tor (which can be blocked), how would people circumvent the fact that the pipes are still owned by the same players? We can't physically lay out "another internet". Maybe there's potential in radio mesh networking, but the wires we have are the wires we get. As depressing as it feels right now, I think the only real option is to continue pushing in the democratic channels we have. Governments can…

Even if some trillionaire decided to lay out all the wires for a new internet it wouldn't matter with respect to things like this. It would still be subject to the same laws. The same applies to radio mesh networking.

The postal service can send a box with say 10 * 6 TB hdd quite fast. Say 2 days for delivery.

480 000 000 000 000 bits / 86400 sec = 5555.56 mbit/s

And you can send as many boxes as you like in parallel.

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#520

Post by atq2119 »

golergka wrote: post #437
rmind wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not the EU which is the problem. It is the reluctance of the political establishment (both within the countries and across the EU) to acknowledge the opposition to such laws.

With structures such as EU, the distance between the voter and decision-making center gets longer, and voter's influence smaller. Exiting these structures, just as limiting the power of any central or federal government in favour of moving this power to lower-level elected authorities (such as states in US or Russia) decreases this distance.

This is fine in theory, with a big caveat.

Our lives are increasingly dominated by big entities, and the political ones are often small fish compared to giant international corporations that can play smaller political entities off against each other (example: Amazon headquarters).

The idea of limiting the size of political entities has merit, but it will backfire unless you also limit the size of economic entities. (And you need to do this first or possibly somehow simultaneously, because once you reduced the size of political entities, it may no longer be possible to limit the size of the economic entities.)

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