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‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

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Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#511

Post by magduf »

vonmoltke wrote: post #176
magduf wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jobs in the defense industry are probably like this for this reason as well.

Are you kidding? The worst pay, worst perks, and worst working environment I ever had was at a large defense contractor, and I didn't see any of our competitors offering anything better. Almost any established tech company can beat them easily.

What are you talking about? Defense jobs, at least on the east coast, have 1) regular working hours (no unpaid overtime), 2) generally very high pay, depending on exactly what you're doing, because not that many people can acquire and hang onto a clearance. Also, 3) lots of vacation, including all the Federal holidays, and never any trouble actually using that vacation unlike so many other companies. All the stuff I read about "established tech companies" like Google and Apple is pretty horrific by comparison (like Apple's new "panopticon" HQ). I think Silicon Valley people have some pretty severe myopia when it comes to jobs outside the valley.

Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#512

Post by magduf »

xfitm3 wrote: post #121
skdd8 wrote: post #25

While I trust FB has very good work perks. I will not be inclined to work there. It comes down to what do you value in life. Do you wanna literally help promote fascism and misinformation? Go work at FB and moonshine at Monsanto on your free time.

Why not join and try to fix it?

These are companies, not governments; there's no democracy there. You either do as management says, or you get fired. Good luck organizing enough coworkers to try to force management's hand.

Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#513

Post by EpicEng »

scottlocklin wrote: post #419
EpicEng wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is true of anything, just a bunch of talk. It's easy to be opposed to X when X does not offer you anything. As soon as X is good for you, many (most?) people don't stick to their guns.

Yeah, nobody has principles. https://scottlocklin.wordpress.com/2018/05/24/i-dont-want-to...

Where did I say "no one"? Putting words in my mouth and then finding a single example which refutes something I never said I a complete waste of energy.

Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#514

Post by dbdjfjrjvebd »

rusk wrote: post #488
jondubois wrote: post #486

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They probably also contribute to microplastics pollution when the clothes slowly break down during washing. Intentions don't matter anywhere near as much as results. In the real world, you get rewarded only for achieving results, not for trying.

I'll take intentions over wilful ignorance any day

Ignorant/mistaken good intentions can do great harm. The difference comes when someone is told that they are doing harm. Do they stop or carry on?

Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#515

Post by geodel »

deminature wrote: post #385
hamandcheese wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, if the expectation is that you work a standard 40 hours, then 'meets most expectations' sounds like a typical and expected outcome from working 40 hours.

'Meets most expectations' is the lowest performance rating before they PIP you. 40hrs just to be on the precipice of unemployment is dumb.

Ha, that sounds like average IT company. I wonder what 1000s of FB engineers typically do. Writing some big data processing system? or mostly just wrangling with javascript, react native etc.

Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

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Post by almost_usual »

Lio wrote: post #456
almost_usual wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not unusual for people to compromise their morals for pay. Actions speak louder than words.

Actually, we know from the Milgram Experiment[1] that most people just compromise their morals for authority figures regardless of pay. Most people aren't bad inherently they just do what they are told and then alter their world view to justify what they've done because internally we generally don't think of ourselves as bad people. So if you do nasty things to someone because someone else in authority tells you to,…

This is a good point, however, I think this would apply more to workers who have already been employed for awhile. Anyone joining should have the sense they'll be subjected to dubious practices.

Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#517

Post by the_af »

collyw wrote: post #452
the_af wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The (in?)famous article Don't Call Yourself a Programmer [0] argues otherwise. The author warns against working for a startup, unless you're the founder or committed to what he calls a lifestyle. Instead, he argues you can work for a hi-tech big corp, enjoying autonomy and fun projects as well as a good work-life balance. Not that I agree with everything in that essay -- some pretty cynical and controversial statemen…

>you can work for a hi-tech big corp, enjoying autonomy and fun projects as well as a good work-life balance. The big companies I have worked with have always had legacy software and slow moving projects. (Edit: 2 out of 3 of the big companies I have worked for. One was very cool, but the location was absolutely terrible).

I suppose the author of TFA argues you should choose your big corp wisely ;)

My own experience has been mostly low/mid-tier companies (software factories mostly) and they are terrible: slow moving, legacy and uninteresting projects; low motivation; no highly qualified people to learn anything from; nobody cares if the damn thing works.

My current job is at a relatively big company. Fast moving projects, interesting tech (depending on the project), high motivation, lots of very knowledgeable coworkers. Granted, my experience is a really small sample (1 out of 1) and I've never worked for a startup so I can't compare. One of my friends has been struggling with his own startup for some years, and while the tech is interesting, his day to day is very stressful (and highly focused on staying afloat) and I wouldn't want it for me.

Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

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Post by zelias »

nostrademons wrote: post #383
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mission statements are always bullshit. The reason being that I have never seen a case where, when push comes to shove, that a company would forgo needed revenue if it contradicted their mission statement. Instead what happens is that leaders go through mental gymnastics trying to show "No, it still aligns with our mission statement, you just have to twist the meaning of the words in the mission statement beyond any…

Usually mission statements are crafted to align incentives between employees and customers (or users, if the product you sell to customers is users' attention). The company's mission should focus on what the customer is trying to achieve with the company's product. As the company works toward that mission, customers accomplish their goals, they become dependent upon the product, they fork over lots of money, and the…

this is spot on

when these huge companies have succeeded what they set out to achieve, they are ultimately left without direction

in theory, that means the company would disband. mission accomplished, let's all go home -- right?

however, large organizations and all those who depend on them for pay cannot disappear overnight -- which leads to the type of ethically gray decisionmaking that creates this issue

Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#519

Post by gehsty »

gehsty wrote: post #439
deanmoriarty wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From my experience, most of this negativity just appears on HN or on channels who have some strong bias (usually business related) against Facebook. All my acquaintances working in tech, which includes people from very wide sociodemographics ranges, consider Facebook an absolutely prestigious employer, with top talent, top challenges, top compensation and top name for building a personal brand. Hell, I interviewed at…

Hey what are the top challenges that Facebook offer? I dont work in tech and follow HN as I find the less technical posts interesting, and I can’t grasp why people want to work in many of these companies, like where is the buzz from working at Facebook now?

Downvotes but no responses... But seriously, its already built to a huge scale, its core product that people actually use (newsfeed / apps) havn’t changed in years(functionally - I’m sure the code base has..). is it the appeal of working on a product used by a significant proportion of the worlds population or just working at a huge company?

Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

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Post by thoughtexplorer »

jondubois wrote: post #486
MrTonyD wrote: post #468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They make clothes out of plastic in order to recycle. It is a conscious choice they make. (I read the book by the founder.) Patagonia may be the only company I trust.

They probably also contribute to microplastics pollution when the clothes slowly break down during washing. Intentions don't matter anywhere near as much as results. In the real world, you get rewarded only for achieving results, not for trying.

Don't let perfect be the enemy of good. They acknowledge there are always trade offs and costs. Their goal is to find the option that does the least harm.

Plus they're actively working on the microplastics problem: https://www.patagonia.com/blog/2017/02/an-update-on-microfib...

In regards to their product, they make high quality clothing that lasts longer (reducing consumption) and sheds less.

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