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Apple plans new U.S. campus, to pay $38B in foreign cash taxes

reuters.com

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Re: Apple plans new U.S. campus, to pay $38B in foreign cash taxes

#511

Post by rkuykendall-com »

rdtsc wrote: post #56
southphillyman wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair the bonuses I've heard about have been laughable so far and accompanied by large lay offs in two cases (Walmart and Comcast).

> I've heard about have been laughable so far Having been poor, then living on $750/month in US for many years, a $1000 bonus is not life changing but also not laughable. The companies certainly didn't have to give those and could have pocketed all of it. > large lay offs in two cases (Walmart and Comcast). Are those because of the tax incentives?

> $1000 bonus is not life changing but also not laughable.

> The companies certainly didn't have to give those and could have pocketed all of it.

Now imagine if the tax give-away would have gone completely to workers.

That would be life changing.

Re: Apple plans new U.S. campus, to pay $38B in foreign cash taxes

#512

Post by pwinnski »

talmand wrote: post #496
SolarNet wrote: post #474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which assumes rational government. Our government is controlled by one party and yet we are heading to a government shutdown over immigration. Rational seems far away.

If the opposing party is threatening shutdown of the government then it would seem that the government is not ruled by that single party.

That single party has the majority of both houses of Congress and also the White House, and yet cannot manage to get a majority vote in the Senate because of disagreement within their own party.

The opposing party is not threatening shutdown. A group within the majority is. Since that group within the majority party won't play ball, the majority of the majority party is hoping to garner some support from the minority party.

As it happens, some of the changes they want to make would require 60% of votes rather than just 50%+1, but they haven't yet demonstrated they can get to 50%+1, so that's irrelevant here.

Re: Apple plans new U.S. campus, to pay $38B in foreign cash taxes

#513

Post by djrogers »

acchow wrote: post #466
downandout wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We currently get $0 in tax revenue from the cash Apple is hoarding overseas. This tax “holiday” (a term I dislike because it incorrectly implies that no tax is being paid on the repatriation, when it is simply a reduced rate) is resulting in $38 billion that we would not have otherwise received. $38,000,000,000 > $0

No. Apple has been waiting for the tax holiday because they've seen it before in precedent. The problem is that politicians like the tax holidays because it looks good on them (big capital inflows have an effect on the economy). But if the holiday was eliminated entirely and never expected, Apple would have to slowly repatriate these earnings as their chest grew too large.

That’s in effect what’s happened here - not only is there a one-time repatriation event, but the tax code has been changed so all future foreign cash holdings will be taxed whether or not hey are repatriated.

Re: Apple plans new U.S. campus, to pay $38B in foreign cash taxes

#514

Post by onezerozeroone »

danjayh wrote: post #400
onezerozeroone wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In fact quite the opposite since it just got a massive tax revenue increase. Nah, they capitulated and accepted a far lower rate than they should have received otherwise if Apple (and companies like them) weren't permitted to play these shifty legal games. If the U.S. gov was really looking out for its own interests and the interests of its citizens, it would have closed these loopholes years ago and told Apple to…

I find it odd that you start from a position that assumes that the federal government has a right to Apple's money. It was basically an attitude like that on the part of the British that led to the American revolution in the first place. If you want a health economy with strong labor demand and robust wage growth, we need to start from the opposite position - the federal government must avoid taxation for all but the…

> a position that assumes that the federal government has a right to Apple's money

I'm starting from a position that assumes the government is entitled to the prevailing tax rate that was law at the time the income was earned.

A tax rate that existed during a time when Apple became the world's most valuable company. It wasn't a colony with no representation suffering under a tyrannical monarchy that was leeching it like a parasite for the enrichment of an elite class. They ARE the elite class.

In fact the opposite is true. Apple benefited from all the services paid for by other tax payers (security and military, infrastructure, legal system, etc) and avoided paying their fair share using legal tricks and loopholes.

The result wasn't "fix the loopholes" it was "give the finger to the American people and government until we get someone elected that will change the rules in our favor"

I'm not saying government is the answer to all problems. Far from it. But there's no question Apple exists and is as successful as it is in large part due to the favorable environment America provides to business...and part of that environment exists due to things paid for with taxes. Never mind the ridiculous wealth inequality that is only continuing to grow in the U.S...this road leads to oligarchy.

Re: Apple plans new U.S. campus, to pay $38B in foreign cash taxes

#515

Post by rdtsc »

rhizome wrote: post #415
rdtsc wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True it seems we are getting the crumbs here falling between the cracks. But what is another realistic scenario? Tax them even more? Wouldn't they move to another tax haven. Why didn't that work so far, these tax tricks are not new.

There are other forces in play. How likely do you think Apple is to give up their "Designed in California" tagline?

Probably not that but they could keep that even when their "profitable on paper" subsidiaries were spread around tax havens just like before.

But another interesting thing here is the interplay with EU countries. EU recently started to pay closer attention to Apple. Even forced them to look for a new place (they found Jersey I think). From my armchair understanding if they pay taxes in one place, say EU they might not need to pay it in US and vice-versa. Because of double taxation. As long as Apple was hoarding the money quietly and nobody could do anything it all good. As soon as EU started going after the money, it would benefit US to try to get to it sooner.

Whether politicians considered that or not not sure. But if they did, I can see them wanting to capture those taxes before EU got to them.

I for one am happy the part of them investing more in US. Don't see the reason people are upset about it.

Re: Apple plans new U.S. campus, to pay $38B in foreign cash taxes

#516

Post by Jerry2 »

dang wrote: post #448
Jerry2 wrote: post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

dang, why a double standard? If this was a story about Google, HN would have changed links to the official Google PR.

Are there many, or even any, examples of that? If so I'd like to see one. Really, all we care about is having the best article on a topic, where by 'best' I mean something like 'most substantive, while remaining accessible to a general audience'. By that standard it seemed obvious that the Reuters url was better. Anti-Apple bias doesn't enter into it, and frankly the idea feels a little absurd to me.

dang, every time there's a story about Google, admins here link to official Google blogs. Every time it hits the front page. And if thee's a negative story about Google, it's quickly buried/flagged/disappeared.

Re: Apple plans new U.S. campus, to pay $38B in foreign cash taxes

#517

Post by specialist »

WalterBright wrote: post #216
specialist wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obama also failed to fulfill many appointments, including a Supreme Court Justice. What, in your opinion, should he have done differently?

He should have read one of the many biographies of LBJ where they go into considerable detail on his career of getting impossible things through Congress. All he needed was to peel off a couple GOP Congressman - surely he could have found a way to do that given 50 of them. Political parties are never a solid block of commitment, there are always waverers and members who can be manipulated with the right carrots. As I…

No contest. I'm a big fan of Robert Caro. Wish I'd read more about politics (and biographies of the players) before I got involved.

Re: Apple plans new U.S. campus, to pay $38B in foreign cash taxes

#518

Post by sjg007 »

qznc wrote: post #490
sjg007 wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My guess is that the path outside of the legislature doing anything is through the courts. Since corporations are citizens there must be some kind of constitutional law since human citizens don’t get the same benefit.

What they do is not illegal, so courts do not help. For example, see Fair Tax Town. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crickhowell-welsh-town...

I'm describing the US here, not the UK. In the US you can challenge a law or statue as being unconstitutional.

Re: Apple plans new U.S. campus, to pay $38B in foreign cash taxes

#519

Post by mabdre »

dguaraglia wrote: post #343
coolso wrote: post #37

So is this actually a bad thing, or are all of the skeptical/negative comments just due to the fact that it's yet another example of the new tax bill having immediate, positive, real effects on the US economy?

$1.5 trillion - $29bn... yeah, still not seeing the "positive effect" in the long term.

150 - 2.9 is definitely a step forward...

Re: Apple plans new U.S. campus, to pay $38B in foreign cash taxes

#520

Post by dang »

croon wrote: post #480
dang wrote: post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you please not use uppercase for emphasis in HN comments? It's basically yelling, and the site guidelines ask you not to.

Sorry, you're right. I would edit it to italicized if I could, temporary lapse in judgement.

I've reopened the comment for editing and can delete these replies if you fix it.
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