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Apple plans new U.S. campus, to pay $38B in foreign cash taxes

reuters.com

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Re: Apple plans new U.S. campus, to pay $38B in foreign cash taxes

#341

Post by sjg007 »

miketery wrote: post #312
benjaminl wrote: post #253

This discussion is missing context. The whole reason that Apple has to pay taxes on foreign income is because unlike almost every other developed nation the US has a worldwide tax system. Almost every other nation has a territorial tax system. The rest of the world with their territorial system taxes income earned within that country, the US rather taxes income worldwide, regardless of where it is earned. For example…

> That means that there won't be any more hordes of overseas profits. And means the end of those tax inversions or corporate inversions you have been hearing about. [1] This won't stop companies selling their IP to overseas shells and then paying royalties.

The IRS really does not like that. I believe it's in litigation. Still if a citizen is subject to a tax on the difference between foreign taxes paid and US taxes owed, a corporation should be as well.

Re: Apple plans new U.S. campus, to pay $38B in foreign cash taxes

#342

Post by dguaraglia »

chrischen wrote: post #246
NelsonMinar wrote: post #239

Alternate headline: "Apple dodges $49B in taxes by waiting for a tax holiday". They reduced their rate on $250B of earnings from 35% to 15.5% by waiting for a new tax policy. https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2018/01/apple-plans-to-p...

Alternate headline: Trump policies enable Apple to re-invest in US jobs and economy.

Alternate headline: Trump policies take American companies closer to the globalized ideal they always envisioned, by making the American market just another market they are not tied in any significant way to. $29 billion is spit in the bucket of the deficit created by this bill, and Apple is the biggest market cap company in the world, with the biggest overseas reserves.

Re: Apple plans new U.S. campus, to pay $38B in foreign cash taxes

#343

Post by dguaraglia »

coolso wrote: post #37

So is this actually a bad thing, or are all of the skeptical/negative comments just due to the fact that it's yet another example of the new tax bill having immediate, positive, real effects on the US economy?

$1.5 trillion - $29bn... yeah, still not seeing the "positive effect" in the long term.

Re: Apple plans new U.S. campus, to pay $38B in foreign cash taxes

#344

Post by Y_Y »

sjg007 wrote: post #341
miketery wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That means that there won't be any more hordes of overseas profits. And means the end of those tax inversions or corporate inversions you have been hearing about. [1] This won't stop companies selling their IP to overseas shells and then paying royalties.

The IRS really does not like that. I believe it's in litigation. Still if a citizen is subject to a tax on the difference between foreign taxes paid and US taxes owed, a corporation should be as well.

The converse is also true.

Re: Apple plans new U.S. campus, to pay $38B in foreign cash taxes

#346

Post by sjg007 »

rdtsc wrote: post #259
onezerozeroone wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you or I decided we just didn't like the tax rate that applied to us and didn't pay our taxes for decades at a time on income we made overseas, what do you think would happen? Corporations are treated as people only when it's convenient. You and I don't have high-powered lawyers, lobbyists, loopholes, offshore accounts, subsidiaries, etc to hide behind. This is an insult to every U.S. citizen...Apple wouldn't exis…

True it seems we are getting the crumbs here falling between the cracks. But what is another realistic scenario? Tax them even more? Wouldn't they move to another tax haven. Why didn't that work so far, these tax tricks are not new.

The whole point is that earned income should not have to be repatriated to be taxed. If I as a citizen have a bank account in Switzerland that accepts my foreign income then I pay tax on that money in the year it was earned. The exact same rules should apply. Just because the bank account is outside of the US should not make a difference.

Re: Apple plans new U.S. campus, to pay $38B in foreign cash taxes

#347

Post by c3534l »

sjg007 wrote: post #339
jitix wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The worldwide tax law sucks even more for an individual. And it makes absolutely no sense when you’re not even a citizen!

US corporations are citizens except that they just can't vote... but they can contribute unlimited campaign contributions.

> US corporations are citizens

No they're not. You're confusing the already commonly-confused concept of legal personhood with citizenship.

> but they can contribute unlimited campaign contributions

Citizens United ruled that actual human beings had the right to make unlimited campaign contributions and that the right to do so could not be rescinded just because those flesh-and-blood individuals decided to pool their money into a corporation. People have the right to organize for political action and congress cannot take that away.

Re: Apple plans new U.S. campus, to pay $38B in foreign cash taxes

#348

Post by sjg007 »

chrischen wrote: post #268
onezerozeroone wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you or I decided we just didn't like the tax rate that applied to us and didn't pay our taxes for decades at a time on income we made overseas, what do you think would happen? Corporations are treated as people only when it's convenient. You and I don't have high-powered lawyers, lobbyists, loopholes, offshore accounts, subsidiaries, etc to hide behind. This is an insult to every U.S. citizen...Apple wouldn't exis…

If they bring the money back then inevitably they'd spend it back into the US economy either through direct job creation or buying things. If they do create jobs, the US gets most of its money from income tax, which would increase from the more jobs/higher wages. It feels like double dipping if we expect them to pay taxes on repatriating the money and then also taxing the wages that the repatriated money allows them…

Most likely they will buy back stock or issue dividends. They have to do what the majority of shareholders want with the money. If they don't they will be sued.

Re: Apple plans new U.S. campus, to pay $38B in foreign cash taxes

#349

Post by byroot »

kec wrote: post #337
krebby wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No but I also don't set up a pretend subsidiary in Ireland that owns my intellectual property and pays me dividends for my freelance work. To pretend that they didn't go above and beyond to avoid paying taxes is lunacy.

Did apple actually do that? Do you have a source for Apple licensing tech from Ireland?

They did since the 80s and continue to do so for all their European revenues: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_Irish_arrangement

A huge part of their $250B stash have never been taxed at all.

Re: Apple plans new U.S. campus, to pay $38B in foreign cash taxes

#350

Post by IBM »

Pulcinella wrote: post #330
IBM wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes you get a credit for the foreign taxes paid, but even still it's absurdly punitive for being an American corporation.

I would not consider taxes to be “punitive.” Taxes aren’t punishment. They are much more like a membership fee.

I think it's fine to view taxes that way, but we should also realize that to a business taxes are a cost to be minimized. No for-profit business willingly conducts their affairs to maximize taxes.

We live in a rules based system and the rules should be designed to incentivize the behaviors we want. Expecting any business to deviate from whats in their best interest is just... out of touch with reality.

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