Intel to Cut 12,000 Jobs, Forecast Misses Amid PC Blight • Hacker News Board

Re: Intel to Cut 12,000 Jobs, Forecast Misses Amid PC Blight

#511

Post by maerF0x0 » Wed, Apr 20, 2016, 6:07 PM UTC

imtringued wrote: post #419

maerF0x0 wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I started investing my retirement money recently. Thats about a good of a signal as any that its going to plummet.

If you're investing for retirement into an index fond then where is the problem? Just wait until the recession is over (and perhaps buy more cheap stock). If you want to retire during a rececssion don't liquidate all your assets. Only as much as you actually need. If you believe that the market is never going to recover why invest in the first place?

it was partially a joke. But yes, dollar cost averaging across a recession will make the total portfolio look ok. I do wonder if we can always continue to make higher and higher "highs" in the market though, meaning any investments I make at the top will make $0 gain.

I do agree with you overall about indexing, however "Just wait until the recession is over" is market timing and I dont believe I (or others) can do this dependably well.

Re: Intel to Cut 12,000 Jobs, Forecast Misses Amid PC Blight

#512

Post by dragontamer » Wed, Apr 20, 2016, 6:18 PM UTC

BuckRogers wrote: post #507

dragontamer wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Skylake is the first chip that makes a very strong case as an upgrade. You gain NVME support for your PCIE SSDs http://www.amazon.com/Ableconn-PEXM2-SSD-NGFF-Express-Adapte... If you care about NVMe, just get a $20 expansion card. Besides, NVMe SSDs are expensive. Mushkin Reactor 1TB for $210 yo. Hell, the fastest NVMe SSDs directly go into PCIe lanes. So if I actually cared about the faster speeds, I'd jump to an…

>Besides, NVMe SSDs are expensive Yes. If you're bargain hunting for gaming hardware you should just buy a console. Or, if you're seriously suggesting to put an Intel 750 into some old system like SandyBridge.. no comment. I would never recommend someone bother doing that. Step up to an NVME setup, Skylake and do it right. Skylake i5 setups can be had for cheap. You're just arguing to argue on that point. Whether or…

I can't find Iris Pro 580 on benchmark sites, because no gamer gives a care about that for gaming.

The Iris Pro 5200 GT3e achieves Passmark 1,174.

http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/video_lookup.php?gpu=Intel...

If Iris Pro 580 GT4e is twice as good (Intel only claims 50% better), that's still not very good. Thats utterly awful actually.

A $100 GPU is the R7 360, just off the top of my head. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125...

Exactly $99 on Newegg right now. It achieves Passmark 3,150.

No one gives a care about the $600 Crystalwell chip that performs worse than a $100 dGPU. Its utterly awful. You'd be insane to actually recommend this product to anybody. You claim that you care about performance. Do you even look at the benchmark numbers bro? You're claims are so far away from reality I really just don't know how I'm supposed to respond to you.

Yes, a $600 Chip. I'm assuming this, unless you can figure out a cheaper Skylake Iris Pro: http://ark.intel.com/products/93336/Intel-Core-i7-6970HQ-Pro...

----------

EDIT: I see that you're an anti-AMD guy. Okay, whatever. That's why there's another company out there.

http://www.amazon.com/ZOTAC-GeForce-DisplayPort-Graphics-ZT-...

NVidea GTX 750 Ti, $105 right now on Amazon. Passmark 3,686. Still utterly crushing your $600 iGPU with cheap-as-hell GPUs, no matter the brand.

http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/gpu.php?gpu=GeForce+GTX+75...

Dude, I'm running a (what was at the time) high-end R9 290x, although this is more of a mid-range card now due to its age (Fury / 980 Ti). It has Passmark of 7,153, and you're seriously suggesting I "upgrade" to a Crystalwell Iris Pro that only achieves ~2000 Passmark?

------------

PS: Skylake performing 20% faster than Sandy Bridge after five years of updates is awful.

-----------

> I'm not into cost-effective bargain hunting.

Then why the hell are you bringing up M.2? Intel 750 is the best of the best and plugs directly into PCIe. Sandy Bridge handles it just fine.

-----------

> In 2 1/2 weeks you'll see Skylake with Crystalwell and Thunderbolt 3 absolutely delete any SandyBridge gaming rig you may have

Crystallwell has to beat a $100 dGPU first. And the benchmarks say otherwise. My bet? Crystalwell fails to beat a R7 360 / NVidia 750 Ti (NVidia's LAST generation BUDGET card) and I get to laugh at its worse-than console performance numbers despite the $600+ launch price for the chip.

But hey man, show me those benchmark numbers if you disagree with my assessment.

Re: Intel to Cut 12,000 Jobs, Forecast Misses Amid PC Blight

#513

Post by dragontamer » Wed, Apr 20, 2016, 6:19 PM UTC

BuckRogers wrote: post #509

dragontamer wrote: post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, but would you seriously recommend it over the AMD Tonga (R9 M370X on the upscaled version)? The 45W i7 is a heavy burden to carry with Crystalwell. Might as well get better graphics if you're going for the 15" Pro.

There is no way in hell I would prefer that AMD chip in my system over an all-Intel system. AMD are just terrible to use in Linux and most people around here want the ability to run that natively without issue. Not to mention the added complication of tacking that AMD chip onto the laptop both from an engineering / reliability stance and software complication. You missed the irony of your 45watts as a heavy burden. A…

Your loss man. The benchmarks don't lie.

Good luck with your overpriced Crystalwell failure. If you got actual benchmark scores to talk about, please respond to me here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11536519

But I actually know the benchmarks of everything you're talking about like the back of my hand. Your argument has no technical legs to stand on what-so-ever. Don't feel bad if I'm just calling out your Bull$.

Re: Intel to Cut 12,000 Jobs, Forecast Misses Amid PC Blight

#514

Post by bubbleRefuge » Wed, Apr 20, 2016, 6:28 PM UTC

marmadukester39 wrote: post #437

bubbleRefuge wrote: post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>yet, the Dow just hit a 9-Month high, and the S&P500 is >now above 2100. Its because bad news is good news in the twisted upside down world of speculating on the Fed's interest rate policy direction via the stock market. Expectations of rate hikes go further into the future with every bad economic indicator released and there are many(retail sales, auto, housing, industrial production, rail traffic, oil and gas, cap…

What's a lad? As someone who instinctually believes this is a house of cards, understanding how to prepare financially is a real challenge.

deposit in an FDIC insured account or US Treasury securities of short duration.

Re: Intel to Cut 12,000 Jobs, Forecast Misses Amid PC Blight

#515

Post by odbol_ » Wed, Apr 20, 2016, 6:40 PM UTC

coldtea wrote: post #248

djsumdog wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see why job losses are a bad thing. The last generation of machines was built so well that people don't need new ones. Good! This should be a great thing. Valuing growth over sustainability makes these backwards ass goals of hiring more, building more and growing. The way this is spun is pretty horrible. Amazon and Wal-mart losing is a good thing for the environment and society as a whole. You yell, "But peop…

> I don't see why job losses are a bad thing. You'll see it if you lose your job and can't find a new one, like it happens to millions of people the world over. Add a medical or family emergency to that, and you'll totally get it. Unemployment in the real world is not about some Sci-fi automation fantasy. Might be, but not yet. And even when historically it leads to new jobs or other benefits (something not always a…

The more jobs are lost, the quicker the demand to fix it, with Universal Basic Income or something similar. We know it has to happen eventually, but the sooner we man up and go for it, the sooner millions of people can get relief from their suffering.

Re: Intel to Cut 12,000 Jobs, Forecast Misses Amid PC Blight

#516

Post by cik2e » Wed, Apr 20, 2016, 7:04 PM UTC

ranci wrote: post #145

osweiller wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More computers are being sold than ever before. The market is absolutely saturated with computing devices. And aside from the intense competition Intel is facing, they're suffering the same issue that the GPU makers face -- I once upgraded yearly because the gains made it worthwhile. Now I upgrade pretty much only when something fails. It is absolutely picking a narrative.

Is half of college graduates being unemployed or working a min wage job picking a narrative too? Is pointing out that wages are completely stagnant and not rising picking a narrative too? What information would you need to receive to admit the economy is not healthy?

Where are you getting this 50% number from?

http://www.epi.org/publication/the-class-of-2015/ For young college graduates, the unemployment rate is currently 7.2 percent (compared with 5.5 percent in 2007), and the underemployment rate is 14.9 percent (compared with 9.6 percent in 2007).

Re: Intel to Cut 12,000 Jobs, Forecast Misses Amid PC Blight

#517

Post by Silhouette » Wed, Apr 20, 2016, 7:22 PM UTC

tedsanders wrote: post #63

This is what the end of Moore's Law looks like. * Tick-tock is dead. * 10 nm is severely delayed. * EUV is severely delayed. * Significant layoffs in R&D * The ITRS roadmap is vaguer than it's ever been. * Giant mergers are up (Intel+Altera, KLA+Lam, etc.), concentrating the industry more than ever. * And ultimately: A 5-year-old PC still works just fine. When I say this is the end of Moore's Law, I'm not trying to b…

And ultimately: A 5-year-old PC still works just fine.

I suspect that is really the dominant factor here. It's not that the progress within the chip industry has stopped; there is far more number-crunching power in the CPU and GPU in my latest PC than in the one from five years ago. And if you're doing things like playing demanding games or modelling skyscrapers in a CAD package, that progress is probably very useful. It's just that for what most people use PCs for, it doesn't matter, because they were already good enough so unless their old one broke they don't need a new one anyway.

Not only that, but when it comes to replacement, smaller and more convenient devices like smartphones and tablets will do everything a lot of people need without needing a PC at all these days. If you mostly used a PC for things like staying in touch with your friends or retrieving information from a web site, rather than anything creative beyond a quick bit of typing or anything that needs more powerful equipment, you might not even have a laptop any more.

Given that Intel has never had much penetration in the mobile device market compared to ARM designs, it doesn't seem that surprising that the demand for their products is waning as the mass market moves in that general direction.

Re: Intel to Cut 12,000 Jobs, Forecast Misses Amid PC Blight

#518

Post by CydeWeys » Wed, Apr 20, 2016, 7:43 PM UTC

sireat wrote: post #510

CydeWeys wrote: post #498

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The phone market is still rapidly evolving. For instance, I have a Nexus 5X right now. The fingerprint scanner on it alone is worth it. It was an afterthought to me when I got the phone, but now it's the single most important feature on the phone to me. The camera is also better than anything phone camera I've had before. Also, I play some games on my phone, and having better hardware helps a lot with that.

What is so useful about a fingerprint scanner? I could see how infrared sensor like in that new Caterpillar phone could come in useful especially if you are in a building trade, but fingerprint scanner?

You know that it's used for unlocking the phone, right? It's nothing like the use case you're describing.

You have to get a phone with one and use it for a week or so until its use becomes routine to really understand how big of a game changer it is. I subconsciously unlock my phone now every time I pick it up. It's amazing. Every day it saves me probably 60 seconds in total typing in stupid PINs, and those savings add up real quickly.

Re: Intel to Cut 12,000 Jobs, Forecast Misses Amid PC Blight

#519

Post by Grishnakh » Wed, Apr 20, 2016, 8:38 PM UTC

saiya-jin wrote: post #474

erkkie wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But what's the alternative? Don't give anyone even the meager means of living? Communism? (that worked out well). In the coming years, tons of people will be out of jobs and incapable of participating in the shrinking not yet automated away economy, what do we do?

you don't get it? basic income IS communism, we/they also had a guaranteed income because everybody had to have a job (=income), even if the job didn't make sense. elites (political in communism vs actually still working people in BI scenario) have amazing life with various luxuries. rest will be allowed to exist and not die of starvation and have a lousy place for sleep. truly bright future...

You haven't answered the question: what is the alternative?

At least with BI, you don't have to toil away at a time-wasting job that's just busy-work: you can do something you enjoy, and maybe we'll all get lucky and you'll write the next Harry Potter series and become a multimillionaire, while paying a bunch of taxes to keep the system going. If not, at least you have the dignity of not digging holes and then filling them back in all day long to justify your paycheck.

If you don't like this, then let's hear your alternative. The only alternative to this that I can think of is to ban automation, or strictly regulate it so that any automation which does a job that humans can do is banned (allowing only automation which does things that humans cannot do). Do you really want to go that route?

Re: Intel to Cut 12,000 Jobs, Forecast Misses Amid PC Blight

#520

Post by digi_owl » Wed, Apr 20, 2016, 10:00 PM UTC

noir_lord wrote: post #322

digi_owl wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not quite about that last part. Clock rates have been more or less stationary over the last decade or so. What Intel has been focusing on for some time is cache, and how to practically always have the right data in the cache at the right time. but yes, having more transistors to work with do allow them to pack more cache onto the die.

Yeah that wasn't perhaps very clear, I meant historically they ramped the clock up (back in the P4 days).

And ran into a brick wall, iirc.