Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO • Hacker News Board

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#501

Post by OpieCunningham » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 8:24 PM UTC

Touche wrote: post #440

OpieCunningham wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many lives need to be ruined before an oppressed community can fight back? Sainthood should not be a bar that everyone must meet in order to avoid being labeled with a black mark. This guy attacked a large group of people and that group defended itself by explaining their displeasure at his recent privilege. He then suffered the consequence of having his privilege removed. Good.

> How many lives need to be ruined before an oppressed community can fight back? The oppressed already did fight back and won. This is putting your enemies on trial afterwards.

The oppressed have already won? No, I don't think so. I do not see any reality to a claim that the gay community is not actively oppressed. Perhaps you mean the gay community is sufficiently less oppressed that it should stop defending itself. Then how few lives need to be ruined for that qualification to take effect?

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#502

Post by dnr » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 8:24 PM UTC

blueveek wrote: post #41

phillmv wrote: post #14

From the recode recap - http://recode.net/2014/04/03/mozilla-co-founder-brendan-eich... >“It’s clear that Brendan cannot lead Mozilla in this setting,” said Baker, who added that she would not and could not speak for Eich. “The ability to lead — particularly for the CEO — is fundamental to the role and that is not possible here.” The most damning aspect of this was their a) inability to predict this would be an issue…

"All he had to do was lie". Are you suggesting this would've been better, in the grand scheme of things?

Not to make a general rule, but in this case I think it would have.

The most damaging thing about homophobic (or other bigoted) views isn't necessarily how the holder of those views acts toward people based on them (in this case it's clear that Eich didn't treat individuals any differently), but how making those views public legitimizes them in other people, giving space for others to act on them directly, and delays full societal acceptance of the marginalized group.

In other words, it's the knowledge that a public figure has those beliefs, not the beliefs themselves. If he just hid them, it would make things better overall.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#503

Post by return0 » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 8:24 PM UTC

DangerousPie wrote: post #45

I am a strong supporter of gay marriage, but I have to say that I find this very unfortunate and worrying. Apparently many Mozilla supporters seem to think it is okay to bully a qualified person out of his job only for his political views, even if they had absolutely no effect on his qualification or his actions on the job. I can't help but feel like this campaign has done a lot more harm to him than his $1000 donati…

He should have just said that he's a devout christian or muslim, and therefore does not condone gay marriage. It would suddenly become adorable in the name of tolerance and diversity.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#504

Post by kybernetikos » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 8:25 PM UTC

cek994 wrote: post #454

twoodfin wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can understand why he gets a pass: He probably was only publicly against it in 2008 in order to win an election, and when it was politically convenient he had a "change of heart" and has repented. What I can't understand is why anyone who espouses the view that opposition to gay marriage is akin to the most heinous racial bigotry could possibly have voted for Barack Obama in 2008. I'm a pretty reliable GOP voter, b…

Opposing something right because it's politically convenient isn't any more ethically defensible than opposing something you truly disagree with. You, as liberals tend to do, are giving Obama a pass -- he can't not do the right thing, by your logic. I suspect that many Republicans nominally against gay marriage are privately for it, but the political ramifications for saying so would be much graver for an older, whit…

I think it's clear that the comment you're replying to does give them a pass since he says he votes GOP.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#505

Post by sp332 » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 8:26 PM UTC

ceautery wrote: post #368

matthewmacleod wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

on the other hand we just showed that when a mob on the Internet wants something - they get it. I don't think that this follows. In this particular case, someone was promoted to a role which many felt was incompatible with his personal views; they made that known, and the person in question stepped down. That's kind of how things should work in a community enterprise. That said, I understand he's received wildly disp…

Well, when your partner dies and the State doesn't recognize your marriage, you don't get survivor benefits. It's conceivable to be with a partner for most of your life, and then lose the house you lived in to your partner's bigot family. That's something to feel strongly about. That said, death threats are always disproportional, and I think we can all agree that however you feel about Eich and his contribution, the…

I might be misremembering (I'm on the other side of the country) but didn't the civil unions give exactly the same survivor benefits?

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#506

Post by clavalle » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 8:26 PM UTC

muyuu wrote: post #412

clavalle wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think people are advocating for him to apologize while still believing he is correct. I think people are advocating that he reflect on his beliefs, come to a different conclusion than he's held, and then apologize for his past views. It doesn't seem like he is going that route.

Would you change your mind on an issue like this as a result of peer pressure?

I change my mind about things all of the time.

While 'peer pressure' is seen as a negative, if you think yourself right while everyone else is wrong on an issue it is a pretty good indicator that you should check your assumptions and logic carefully.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#507

Post by bowlofpetunias » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 8:26 PM UTC

DangerousPie wrote: post #45

I am a strong supporter of gay marriage, but I have to say that I find this very unfortunate and worrying. Apparently many Mozilla supporters seem to think it is okay to bully a qualified person out of his job only for his political views, even if they had absolutely no effect on his qualification or his actions on the job. I can't help but feel like this campaign has done a lot more harm to him than his $1000 donati…

Vicious bigotry is not "a political view".

Can we please stop comparing Eich's hateful, hurtful and downright delusional notions with ordinary political or personal views?

Being anti-gay is not a political view. And being anti gay marriage is just a very, very lame and transparent attempt to make being anti-gay seem somehow less hateful.

Hating people for what they are may be very human, understandable even, but it's not a "political view".

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#508

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 8:27 PM UTC

ahuth wrote: post #424

nostrademons wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This line of reasoning is very troubling to me, because 20 years ago it was pretty much unacceptable in the U.S. to hold the opinion that gays were entitled to full legal rights, let alone the ability to marry. That changed only because some very courageous people stuck their neck out, weathered all the flack and negative personal repercussions towards themselves, and gradually made the point of "Why not?" I fully su…

Holding an unpopular opinion that is all about increasing fairness and equality (racial equality, feminism, gay rights, etc.) is completely different than holding one that is about decreasing fairness and equality. We cannot compare Eich's position of denying a freedom to some people to those of the people who stood for racial equality and feminism.

[deleted]

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#509

Post by dalke » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 8:27 PM UTC

crassus wrote: post #408

HillRat wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's two sides to that -- the first is that, yes, he absolutely has the right to hold any opinion he wants to, no matter how noxious I or others may find them. To paraphrase Hall on Voltaire, I'll defend to the death their right to be assholes. (Full disclosure: pro- gay marriage, anti-Prop 8, not a CA resident, so doesn't really affect me.) On the other hand, there's no absolute right to be a public-facing CEO, a…

This is exactly how opinion worked in East Germany. You didn't have to be a communist, but if you weren't you would never work again. We have the exact same protection for political expression as East Germany. That's freedom? "The Lives of Others" was a warning, not an instruction manual.

You have confused the right of free association with government oppression. OKCupid has a right to not be associated with Firefox. That's rather the opposite of what the Stasi did to dissidents in East Germany.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#510

Post by eropple » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 8:27 PM UTC

Spooky23 wrote: post #231

dopamean wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I generally agree with you but I think the problem here is that being against gay marriage is more than just a "political view." Being for low taxes is a political view. Being for smaller government is a political view. Believing a certain group of people don't deserve to live their lives like other simply because of who they love is not a political view. It reads as extremely hateful and that makes people uncomforta…

It's also a religious view for many. For someone who belongs to a religious community, publicly renouncing canon has serious impacts on you and your family's social standing. Many people are able to balance their personal beliefs against their professional obligations. Is a defense attorney who defends a rapist at trial assumed to not be capable of working with women? People should be judged by actions, not thought.…

But he is being judged by his actions, because his actions suck. His actions like donating a grand to these jerks, like donating money to other jerks like Pat "our promiscuous homosexuals appear literally Hell-bent on Satanism and suicide" Buchanan. He has a history of badness and it's catching up to him. Though, honestly, the Pat Buchanan donation bothers me even more than the Prop 8 one; donating money to Pat Buchanan should not only be reason to not represent Mozilla but possibly be thrown off of planet Earth entirely.

And if somebody has a problem differentiating between civil and religious marriage, that's their problem. A few people's failures in civics classes should not be a rationale for injustice or a pass for people who wish to encourage further injustice.