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Suspected sabotage causes major Netherlands rail disruption

bbc.com

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Re: Suspected sabotage causes major Netherlands rail disruption

#501

Post by [deleted] »

smallstepforman wrote: post #496
pvaldes wrote: post #495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> dont remember seeing Lavrov delivering a declaration of war Mr "Lithuania Will Disappear From the World Map" has not been so shy on this aspect "Dmitry Medvedev on Feb. 18 threatened to use nuclear weapons against the U.S., the U.K., Germany, and Ukraine if Moscow loses all occupied Ukrainian territories".

In Academia, this is not how to cite references. Date, link, etc. The quality of the reference is also important, not “such and such blogger”, might as well go to local bar and ask the regular drunk for references. Because in the real world (tm) a diplomat announcing this has consequences. Press can parrot any fantasy they want, gullible may just as well watch Marvel entertainment, same relation to reality.

[deleted]

Re: Suspected sabotage causes major Netherlands rail disruption

#502

Post by pvaldes »

smallstepforman wrote: post #496
pvaldes wrote: post #495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> dont remember seeing Lavrov delivering a declaration of war Mr "Lithuania Will Disappear From the World Map" has not been so shy on this aspect "Dmitry Medvedev on Feb. 18 threatened to use nuclear weapons against the U.S., the U.K., Germany, and Ukraine if Moscow loses all occupied Ukrainian territories".

In Academia, this is not how to cite references. Date, link, etc. The quality of the reference is also important, not “such and such blogger”, might as well go to local bar and ask the regular drunk for references. Because in the real world (tm) a diplomat announcing this has consequences. Press can parrot any fantasy they want, gullible may just as well watch Marvel entertainment, same relation to reality.

Feel free to complete the cite for us, to add comments over it, or to provide any proof that him saying that is fake.

Re: Suspected sabotage causes major Netherlands rail disruption

#503

Post by somenameforme »

Paradigma11 wrote: post #454
somenameforme wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not saying such claims are not being published, I'm saying they're likely false because they make about as much sense as a country blowing up its own pipeline. Espionage outside of war is an extremely sensitive issue, and were any country trivially baitable, they'd end up getting played hard. Not only would it eliminate deniability, but you also open up the door to major counter-intel operations and getting more…

This has been extremely well documented. They are just paying some losers a few hundred euros to throw a molotow cocktail somewhere, that's it. As for the Germans, you know that they investigated the NS incident and are prosecuting the Ukrainian perpetrators. Now when the perpetrators are Russian, everything is fake of course.

Russia blowing up its own pipeline was also 'extremely well documented.' One of the many reasons that propaganda is self defeating is because when done effectively, as it has been with Ukraine, the people doing it eventually begin to be unable to tell what people really think due to self censorship and other issues. Have you really convinced everybody, or just made them smile and nod?

Germany is now finding out the answer to that question, and I expect it's mere foreshadowing for much of the rest of Europe. The exact same happened with the Soviet Union. Gorbachev grew up during the Stalin years, alongside all of the joys that entails. He smiled and nodded all the way until he was at the top in power, at which point he almost immediately set about undermining the systems that had been in place.

Re: Suspected sabotage causes major Netherlands rail disruption

#504

Post by pphysch »

preisschild wrote: post #478
pphysch wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"brazen and identified" is doing a lot of work here. IIRC the cable thing was an anchor accident, and everyone is doing psyop campaigns (Western psyops being far more advanced and sophisticated than their enemies). Nord Stream was definitely not an accident and we know who did that. Implying that Russia somehow invented or is the undisputed leader in "psyops" is a popular hallmark of a low-information civilian, a nar…

> Nord Stream was definitely not an accident and we know who did that Lol who claimed it was an "accident"? Most likely it was disgruntled Ukrainians with just enough resources and skill. And they did great work. Anne Applebaum is a historian not a "propagandist" lol

"Propagandist" is not a palatable job title, so propagandists often masquerade under different words. For example, the US government's official foreign propaganda agency is called "US Agency for Global Media".

If Anne "it's okay to kill journalists in wartime" Applebaum is not a prominent Western propagandist, then who is?

Re: Suspected sabotage causes major Netherlands rail disruption

#505

Post by ivandenysov »

peri-cl wrote: post #117
apt-get wrote: post #3

Just days after a similar (criminal) incident causing a train to derail in France: https://www.lemonde.fr/en/france/article/2026/09/12/french-p... "close to Renault's factory in the town of Cléon", which is now preparing to start manufacturing drones for the French military, in collaboration with Ukrainian military-industrial groups.

I don't think they look similar, the synchronicity notwithstanding. The sabotage in France was a 250–300 kg rail fragment (per your link). The objects in the Netherlands look much smaller, and look like they're intended to short-circuit two rails to trigger a signal fault. In one place they found car jumper cables with clamps attached to both rails, https://nos.nl/video/2631081-startkabels-van-spoor-bij-meppe... ( "S…

Who designs a signaling system where a ‘major disruption’ can be caused by a jumper cable applied at any point along potentially hundreds of kms? What about resiliency and fallbacks for something that critical?

Fear not! I’m sure the European Commission will promptly ban jumpstart cable ownership without a license.

Re: Suspected sabotage causes major Netherlands rail disruption

#506

Post by lenkite »

sorenjan wrote: post #12

A Russian warship fired flares at a Danish military helicopter in international waters in the Baltic sea too. https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cwn8mjl31p5yo

I don't get what is wrong with this ? Even the U.S. Navy ships fire warning flares at other vessels when they approach close. And the Danish military explicitly said that the helicopter was carrying out a reconnaissance flight "observing the Russian vessel".

Do that to the US Navy and you will find yourself the target of a flare too.

Re: Suspected sabotage causes major Netherlands rail disruption

#507

Post by lenkite »

grey-area wrote: post #279

Russia is at war with Europe. Europe is not yet at war with Russia but it will be in time.

Europe is already in a warm-war with Russia. EU has sent hundreds of thousands of drones used to attack Russia - along with training, intelligence and target guidance. EU airspace is used openly by Ukraine to attack Russia. IMHO, war should be openly declared with clear objectives. That way the Russian €200 billion can be openly seized without all the whining.

Re: Suspected sabotage causes major Netherlands rail disruption

#508

Post by Zigurd »

century19 wrote: post #456
Zigurd wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many, maybe even most Russians would like to be part of Europe, even if they would complain about the terms that would enable them to join pan European organizations. For now they are just potential Europeans.

Russia being part of Europe is a fact and not a preference. It seems like you want to see Europe as being united against Russia instead of this being an internal European conflict, which it is.

Russia's urban centers being mostly located on the European continent doesn't make Russia European. They are, deservingly for starting a war in Europe, excluded from treaties enabling free trade and free movement. That's not a conflict with consequences limited to Europe, and the US apparently needs to be reminded, no matter who pays for the wedding reception.

Re: Suspected sabotage causes major Netherlands rail disruption

#510

Post by wolvoleo »

grey-area wrote: post #499
wolvoleo wrote: post #432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We should just build up enough nuclear deterrent to prevent Russia from attacking us. We've been dependent on the US for this but this was also by the US' own design. They didn't want many countries to have nukes. So the whole 'Europe is not doing its bit' is not really justified. We don't need more tanks and soldiers because if we go at Russia like Ukraine does, so many people will die that it doesn't matter who win…

Russia are already attacking Europe. Europe already has a nuclear deterrent.

Well what I mean is tanks across the border. Some psyops and a drone here and there is not really cause to go all out. A tank division invading Poland would be, of course.

And Europa has some deterrent but nothing compared to the Russian one. We have a major 'missile gap' right now.

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