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Honda is killing its EVs

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501–510 of 919 posts

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#501
post #462

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At a societal level, EVs are generally better than ICE cars. Cite your sources, please > cars that can automatically fix a "recall" with an over-the-air update are generally better than recalls that will wait to get fixed until an owner schedules an appointment to have the car serviced. If a "recall" can be fixed via software, doesn't that mean just shitty software to begin with? And that usually happens only when…

>Cite your sources, please we need sources for the fact an electric motor, all other things being equal, is better than a combustion engine? If you agree that people in general value the health of their lungs that alone is sufficient reason. It's also becoming quickly a question of geopolitical resilience, running your transport system on dinosaur juice coming from regions where people blow each other up is bad in pa…

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Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#502
I once put together a comparison of Chinese and Japanese industries on a forum while answering a question. What’s happening with Honda is probably just the beginning — the bigger signs of decline aren’t limited to the auto industry. Japan’s space program, for example, has had several launch failures in a row, it has been mostly absent in the current AI wave, and there was even recent news about a so-called Japanese AI model that turned out to be built directly on top of DeepSeek.

Japanese society has long been romanticized in the West, but once you start noticing certain details, a different side becomes visible. A simple example: about a century ago, the average height of Japanese men and women was actually higher than that of Chinese and Koreans, but later the growth basically stalled, and in some periods even declined. It’s not that Japan is poor. It feels more like there are strong, invisible social expectations — women are not supposed to grow too tall, men don’t seem comfortable standing out physically, and people live within a very tight set of unwritten rules about what you should and shouldn’t do.

This is the same kind of thing people notice when they joke that Japan still uses Yahoo or fax machines. That discipline creates stability, and from the outside it can look orderly and even admirable. But when you look more closely, it can also feel restrictive, even a bit unsettling. It’s hard to believe that this kind of social atmosphere wouldn’t affect corporate culture as well. In that sense, it may help explain why Japan, which once dominated the global auto industry, hesitated for so long on electric vehicles and ended up being overtaken by China in the new wave of technology.

Another thing is that Japan can be very unrealistic. You can see this in their movies, anime, and literature — there’s this strong belief in the power of belief itself, like if you just believe hard enough, things will work out. That mindset shows up in real issues too, like rare earth supply, military readiness, and national strategy. Japan might actually be one of the countries with the strongest information bubbles in the world. From top to bottom, people tend to believe what they want to believe, even when reality says otherwise. And when reality does show up, the reaction is often to pull back quickly and say the problem isn’t real.

You could already see this mentality during World War II, especially with the attack on Pearl Harbor. After that, Japan’s postwar industrial success made the illusion even stronger. If a company messes up, they apologize, and everyone forgives them. Toyota is number one in the world and will always be number one — no need to worry. That kind of thinking is exactly why Japanese industry has been declining for a long time without people really feeling a sense of crisis.

You can even see Germans openly complaining about their country’s problems, but you don’t see that very often in Japan. As long as they still have Excel, Word, and loppy disk ,or some japan made code editor, everything feels fine, so there’s no need to feel anxious.

And if there were ever a war over China and Taiwan, most people in Japan might even think: as long as we take action, China will definitely lose.It’s just like the recent Iran war. many japanese people believe that China will collapse first, because China is too dependent on Middle Eastern oil, even though the real data shows that Japan is actually more dependent.

(write by me and translated by GPT)

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#503

I live in a top EV market, Norway. ICE cars have been planned out for years now, and something like 96% of all new cars in Norway were EV last year. Basically, if you plan on keeping selling ICE cars, you're removing yourself from the market here. There's no future for new personal ICE cars here. I figure most other countries will be the same.

> I live in a top EV market, Norway. It is the top EV market. > I figure most other countries will be the same. Most other countries are not Norway, it is a very wealthy, tiny market (150 K vehicles/year) with lots of hydro and not representative of the typical vehicle market in Western Europe and definitely not representative of the situation in the rest of the world. EVs are the future, there is no doubt about that…

Top market? I'm pretty sure that's China.

Speaking of bookkeeping tricks: Kneecapping renewable energy (wind), cancelling the EV future in the US, and then starting a war in the strait of hormuz will someday be acknowledged as the finest moment of the oil industry, maximizing profit in the face of all reason.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#504
post #489
post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's interesting how many complaints I see on HN that are framed as if they're complaints about a specific piece of technology when they are really complaints about capitalism. I'm all ears if you want to criticize our entire economic system, but I think it's silly to have that conversation specifically in the context of car software rather than at a societal level.

If it's silly and it works, it's not silly. Criticising our entire economic system tends to have very little effect. Criticising specific poor business practices and/or technologies that enable them has a much better chance of improving people's lives.

> Criticising our entire economic system tends to have very little effect.

I think its actively counterproductive. Criticising the entire economic system doesn't do anything. Complaining in broad strokes about stuff you can't change reduces your sense of agency over the world.

Also, if people believe that businesses must be sociopathic, they will make sociopathic choices in business. The belief reinforces the problem.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#505
post #475

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of curiosity, do they support one pedal driving correctly (i.e., let you set it and forget it, and never unexpectedly accelerate from a stop unless you turn it off explicitly). BMW used to, but broke it on the i4, and presumably all the newer ones. Kia’s implementation is completely broken. I ask, because that’s the number one thing I’ll check for with future EV purchases, and it’s purely software.

I have not driven the Wuling myself, only traveled as a passenger. On Xingguan it's "normal", just like on Tesla or anywhere else. The Geely did not come to a complete stop on regen braking, I had to use the brake pedal for the final ~5 km/h. Perhaps there was a setting to override this, but I did not check.

Tesla seems OK. I’m really spoiled by the “complete stop” feature.

The worst (which is what most brands are moving to in the US) is when it’s completely unpredictable. Basically, half the time, the car unexpectedly accelerates from a stop, or fails to engage regen.

On some cars, they even tie regen to a camera, so regen works well unless you are on a curve or cresting a hill. In those situations, the car accelerates or fails to slow down.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#506
post #505

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have not driven the Wuling myself, only traveled as a passenger. On Xingguan it's "normal", just like on Tesla or anywhere else. The Geely did not come to a complete stop on regen braking, I had to use the brake pedal for the final ~5 km/h. Perhaps there was a setting to override this, but I did not check.

Tesla seems OK. I’m really spoiled by the “complete stop” feature. The worst (which is what most brands are moving to in the US) is when it’s completely unpredictable. Basically, half the time, the car unexpectedly accelerates from a stop, or fails to engage regen. On some cars, they even tie regen to a camera, so regen works well unless you are on a curve or cresting a hill. In those situations, the car accelerates…

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Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#507

Everyone is saying EVs are the future but most EVs cannot compete with many of Honda’s offerings. Eg. I need to move 6 people and significant gear (skiing, camping, biking etc) long remote distances. There is no EV that can do that really. And the ones that come close are easily $20-30k higher than an Odyssey. Plus the durability of large EVs is far from proven while the 300k mile club of Odyssey owners is large. I n…

So an EV is not for you! You just might be one of the unlucky 1% for whom that is true. Congratulate yourself on visiting nature while simultaneously messing it up. And enjoy the fuel prices.

If you are visiting nature in any vehicle you are messing it up.

Gas prices are pretty much trivial unless you: - drive a lot (which in that case you’re really messing up nature regardless of ICE vs EV) - own a fleet - are really tight on finances (not buying a new car anyway)

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#508
post #501

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Cite your sources, please we need sources for the fact an electric motor, all other things being equal, is better than a combustion engine? If you agree that people in general value the health of their lungs that alone is sufficient reason. It's also becoming quickly a question of geopolitical resilience, running your transport system on dinosaur juice coming from regions where people blow each other up is bad in pa…

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Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#509

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My daily driver is approaching the ripe old age of 30, my main reason is a lack of software.

I’m what part of the world do you live to have a carbureted car from the late 90s?

I think Pakistan they are still kicking around.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#510

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really shows the bias in Honda’s management here. They’ve also spent years trying to develop and promote their hydrogen fuel cell cars and it’s just as much of a failure as their EV division yet they aren’t axing that golden child.

That's a fundamental misunderstanding of why they're going in on hydrogen so hard - it's something they can generate domestically and without geopolitical implications. If there is a war with china or in the middle east, hydrogen vehicles are somewhat immune to oil or rare earth spikes. They will likely never roll out hydrogen power in any large capacity but the capability will be there if they need it

The drivetrain is still electric with hydrogen vehicles.
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