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The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

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Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#501

Post by pjc50 »

keeda wrote: post #358
caseysoftware wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So it was never about security at all then, was it? Never was. I flew every other week prior to covid and haven't once been through the scanners. For the first ~6 years, I opted out and got pat down over and over again. Then I realized I could even skip that. Now at the checkpoint, I stand at the metal detector. When they wave me to the scanner, I say "I can't raise my arms over my head." They wave me through the m…

> The TSA was NEVER about security. It was designed as a jobs program and make it look like we were doing something for security. To a great extent, it is security, even if it's mostly security theater, in the sense that it is security theater that people want . A large portion, maybe even the majority, of travelers simply won't feel safe without it. I've had and overheard multiple conversations at the airport where…

The problem with allowing "feels unsafe" to drive policy is that you get this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46866201 ; a lot of Americans (and other nationalities) get that "feels unsafe" feeling when they see a visible minority. Or a Muslim. Or someone who isn't a Muslim but (like a Sikh!) is from the same hemisphere as the Middle East.

You get one set of people's rights compromised to salve the feelings of another set, and this is not right.

The worst thing is that indulging it doesn't lessen the fear either. It just means people reach for something else to be "afraid" of.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#502

Post by noduerme »

Shadasz wrote: post #450
tsimionescu wrote: post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

[flagged]

scuse me, is there another major religion in modern times whose popular leaders sanctify taking the lives of disbelievers to get to heaven? I'm waiting, I'd love to hear about another one.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#503

Post by rkomorn »

kelnos wrote: post #499
scott_w wrote: post #491

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’d hazard that this may be true now, but this feeling was created by the same “security measures” we’re discussing. Slight tangent but I recall travelling within the Schengen Zone for the first time and just walking off the plane and straight into a taxi. When I explained what I did to someone she asked "but what about security? How do they know you've not got a bomb?" I don't think I had the words to explain that…

Er, I don't get it. I do the same thing at every airport in the US: walk off the plane and straight into a taxi.

I think they're talking about international travel and not having to go through border control within the Schengen space even though you're traveling to different countries.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#504

Post by pjc50 »

OkayPhysicist wrote: post #121
Izikiel43 wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes, because the federal government can't assume that everyone has an ID, since they don't issue a universal ID. I'm from a 3rd world country and we have a national id, the usa is weird in the strangest things.

It's a deep-seated cultural paranoia that the federal government is out to get us. Initially, the US tried to be a confederation like the EU or Canada, but it turned out that we needed slightly more federal power than that to stay as a unified country. But the tension between "loose coalition of independent states" and "unified government that grants some powers to the states" is a pretty fundamental theme throughout…

> deep-seated cultural paranoia that the federal government is out to get us.

And yet when the Federal government deploys paramilitaries to a city to do sweeps of everybody who isn't carrying papers, while also using 2nd-amendment lawful carry as a pretext to murder someone, those same people are very quiet.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#505

Post by noduerme »

lazide wrote: post #483
tsimionescu wrote: post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Congrats for being one of today’s 10,000! [ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Airlines_Flight_423 ]. Notably in India, there have been a few times where Sikhs have been at the head of violent revolts - and a few times where they have been targeted by violent purges/genocides. They’re generally pretty chill, but they aren’t pacifists.

I'd say that incident falls under political extremism, not religious extremism. Which is all the more reason to check people's individual beliefs rather than their race or ethnicity. Anyone from any background can be radicalized; some formatting is more prone to it than others. Sikhs, as you say, are pretty chill. Not being pacifist doesn't mean you want to go out and kill anyone.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#506

Post by mikkupikku »

paxys wrote: post #23

It's hilarious how transparent a money grab this entire thing is. "You need to show a Real ID for security, otherwise how do we know you won't hijack the plane?" "Well I don't have a Real ID." "Ok then, give us $45 and you can go through." So it was never about security at all then, was it? And don't get me started with all the paid express security lanes. Because of course only poor people can weaponize shoes and la…

The TSA are literally terrorists. Their job isn't to stop terrorism, their job is to keep memory of terrorism fresh in the public's mind, to keep them afraid, to constantly remind people that they must be subservient to the federal government or else more people will die. It's flat out terrorism.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#507

Post by tsimionescu »

Shadasz wrote: post #450
tsimionescu wrote: post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

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No, not at all. I was simply combating the idea that the kinds of reasons that lead to people being less likely to become regular criminals (a religious reason to carry a weapon, being licensed and trained with a weapon) would apply to their risk profile on airplanes.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#508

Post by mikkupikku »

0x457 wrote: post #366
tdeck wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that Real ID was introduced when I was in college and has been pushed back every year since shows that we don't actually need it.

That's because many Americans are against national ID at all cost for some reason. The very same Americans think that immigrants need to have their "I'm legal" folder with them at all times.

> The very same Americans think that immigrants ...

Only half of the opposition to federal IDs comes from the right wing people who are hand wringing about ""The Mark of the Beast"" while saying that immigrants need to identify themselves. The other half of the opposition to federal IDs comes from the left who insist that federal IDs are a conspiracy to stop poor people from voting. This is a bipartisan issue, but you only acknowledged one half.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#509

Post by defrost »

noduerme wrote: post #500
defrost wrote: post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hangry, cramped, tired, entitled, redneck is easily #1 on the air rage list. Not exactly an ideology though.

Air rage != plan to become shahid

Your specific singular focus might blind you to all the other reasons planes have been hijacked: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aircraft_hijackings

and potential incidental dangers from unrest in confined spaces.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#510

Post by tsimionescu »

noduerme wrote: post #486
tsimionescu wrote: post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I think you misunderstood me. That's exactly what I'm saying. And I'm saying that Sikhs with or without ceremonial blades are no more of a threat than Mormons wearing special underwear. [edit] To be more specific: An individual with an extreme belief about anything is as dangerous as an extremist member of a group with extreme beliefs. So the smart thing is to look at the beliefs and extramicy of each person. If you…

I think the best and easiest idea is to prevent people from carrying weapons on airplanes. Taking over an airplane with special underwear is not a realistic threat.

In contrast, trying to interview and run background checks on every person boarding a plane to figure out if they are an extremist on a mission or not is (a) much more invasive, and (b) much less likely to work out. Especially when you actually don't want to prevent fundamentalists from flying on planes (I don't think preventing some major evangelical church leader or some radical rabbi from flying would even be constitutional, and clearly not a popular move if attempted).

Note that I am not at all advocating for extra security targeting of Sikhs or any other such religious or ethnic targeting. I am just saying that no one should be allowed to carry a weapon on board a commercial airplane, for any reason.

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