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The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

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Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only if being illiterate also forbade you from driving, which it does not. You don't need to read the law to follow the law.

Well, there's a written exam.

Which can be completed by someone reading it verbally and writing down their answers, pretty much the same thing as financial and legal documents can.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A general reminder that every extra obstacle to getting a valid ID (or voting) disproportionately impacts the poor. They often lack the paperwork, the free time, and the money to deal with the extra process involved.

Absolutely. With Real ID, the biggest pain for a lot of people is proof of residency. Rich people just print out some combination of a bank statement, a pay stub, and a copy of their mortgage or lease or the electric bill, but poor people may not have much of that. Think of someone staying with family and getting paid by a gig economy job to a Cash App card or just working under the table/doing odd jobs. Once you sta…

You need two documents for proof. It's really not that hard. Poor that can't produce these documents probably can't afford a plane ticket either, so how is it a problem? Y'all have some weird ideas about how poor people are incapable of have two pieces of paper that have: 1) their name 2) their address

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#363

TSA's searches without a warrant are illegal. The fourth amendment: >The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. And no, you cannot…

Unfortunately almost every court that has considered the question has concluded otherwise. https://repository.law.umich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article... Also, the question has been largely sidestepped by the fact that travelers consent to search by voluntarily proceeding into the secure (airside) area of the airport, and there are usually--if not always--signs at the TSA screening point that say so. It’s not like y…

The courts are allowed to be wrong, it's true.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Read the fourth amendment since you clearly didn't the first time.

As an attorney, I can tell you that a naive reading of words in the Constitution is not how law is decided.

Believe it or not, I don't care what authoritarians feel about the 4th amendment that was designed to be read and interpreted free of the courts.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#365
post #19

I've flown without ID twice. Once because I lost my ID, once to prove to a friend that it could be done. This fee will fail for the same reason that flying without ID works at all - the law is quite clear on it.

Did you have to show the airline your ID when checking in? As far as I can tell, the TSA is one thing, while airline policy is another. The law says it’s not required for security, but airlines might be justified in carrying out their own policies? Honestly curious.

> Did you have to show the airline your ID when checking in?

No.

Most airlines only start asking for ID if you want to check a bag. But not for check-in.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#366
post #182
post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Real ID is/was needed because every state has different requirements to get one. The whole debate is hilarious, you need one or two extra documents to get RealID. The exact same amount of time and trips to DMV.

The fact that Real ID was introduced when I was in college and has been pushed back every year since shows that we don't actually need it.

That's because many Americans are against national ID at all cost for some reason. The very same Americans think that immigrants need to have their "I'm legal" folder with them at all times.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately almost every court that has considered the question has concluded otherwise. https://repository.law.umich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article... Also, the question has been largely sidestepped by the fact that travelers consent to search by voluntarily proceeding into the secure (airside) area of the airport, and there are usually--if not always--signs at the TSA screening point that say so. It’s not like y…

The courts are allowed to be wrong, it's true.

If you think you know better, you should fight your own test case and publish a running report on how it’s going instead of armchair lawyering.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#368

In the USA it is possible to fly without an ID?

Yes, because the federal government can't assume that everyone has an ID, since they don't issue a universal ID. Any attempt to fix the fact that Americans don't have universal federal identification has met stiff resistance from a variety of angles, from privacy proponents to religious nuts who think universal identification is the mark of the beast. It ties into why we still have to register for the draft (despite…

It feels to me like the more into the future we get the more backwards these policies seem. Bring on the national ID, I say.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an attorney, I can tell you that a naive reading of words in the Constitution is not how law is decided.

Believe it or not, I don't care what authoritarians feel about the 4th amendment that was designed to be read and interpreted free of the courts.

And how, exactly, are you certain of this intended design?

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#370
post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Real ID is/was needed because every state has different requirements to get one. The whole debate is hilarious, you need one or two extra documents to get RealID. The exact same amount of time and trips to DMV.

I had the option to get a "Real ID" the last time I renewed my driver's license, and did not. I forget which stupid bit of paper gave me trouble, but I had a valid passport (the Mother of All IDs), which was both insufficient to get a "Real ID" and sufficient to fly. It's a joke, a nuisance, and now a revenue source.

You're not going to believe it, but if you already have a passport - you don't need Real ID (in ideal world). I only got Real ID because I want to have zero questions about my immigration status.
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