U.S. government takes 10% stake in Intel • Hacker News Board

Re: U.S. government takes 10% stake in Intel

#501

Post by freeopinion » Sat, Aug 23, 2025, 2:36 AM UTC

bongodongobob wrote: post #471

freeopinion wrote: post #452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is using tax money to prop up uncompetitive companies good for national security? Wouldn't it be better to replace them with competitive companies? It's super hard to be successful when your own government in backing the competition.

You can't build a new Intel. That would take decades. These aren't startups. They are massive fucking machines that can't just be disassembled and put back together by someone else. So the idea is to control them and get them back on track to better serve the collective interest.

You can't build a new one so you keep the old one on life support? This makes no sense. The old Intel is not the right choice. How many decades do you think it will take them to recover if you don't clean house? How many decades has it already been? The later you start the longer you remain vulnerable to foreign competition.

Re: U.S. government takes 10% stake in Intel

#502

Post by pfannkuchen » Sat, Aug 23, 2025, 2:38 AM UTC

vlovich123 wrote: post #500

jjcm wrote: post #199

In general I would rather the government take a stake in corporations they're bailing out. I think the "too big to fail" bailouts in the past should have come with more of a cost for the business, so on one hand I'm glad this is finally happening. On the other hand, I wish it were a more formalized process rather than this politicized "our president made a deal to save america!" / "Intel is back and the government is…

The heavily criticized auto bailout was precisely this way and actually turned a profit once the government sold its stake. This is different and I can’t imagine the government will ever sell its stake.

Did it turn a real profit or a nominal profit, I wonder? I remember hearing a brrrr sound around that time.

Re: U.S. government takes 10% stake in Intel

#503

Post by BurningFrog » Sat, Aug 23, 2025, 2:40 AM UTC

fluoridation wrote: post #499

sgnelson wrote: post #468

Everyone is talking about "bailouts" and "owning a company that the government funds." This isn't about that at all. This is about the breakdown of the rule of law, a unitary executive bypassing all other branches of government and demanding a private enterprise give itself over to the government. If you don't think there was an "or else" as part of this deal, you're largely mistaken. If you don't think that there wi…

Why would the government need to "demand" to buy a piece of a publicly-traded company? Is 10% of Intel more than what is being traded in the public market?

As I understand it, the government didn't pay anything for these shares.

Re: U.S. government takes 10% stake in Intel

#504

Post by dev1ycan » Sat, Aug 23, 2025, 2:40 AM UTC

A lot of criticism of China is about how the government controls companies... isn't this literally it? I mean it was already the case before, but they tried to pretend it wasn't, now they literally own a stake in intel.

Re: U.S. government takes 10% stake in Intel

#505

Post by BeetleB » Sat, Aug 23, 2025, 2:41 AM UTC

loeg wrote: post #303

BeetleB wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope. When I buy stocks at market price, the company gets none of my money. When the company issues new stocks and sells them, the company gets the money.

I think you're maybe unfamiliar with what an ATM offering is; try googling it.

Fair point. The key issue in the thread, which I think we both agree on, is that yes, the government is giving money to Intel.

Re: U.S. government takes 10% stake in Intel

#506

Post by pfannkuchen » Sat, Aug 23, 2025, 2:42 AM UTC

freeopinion wrote: post #465

JustExAWS wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chip manufacturing is too important for the US. We can’t be completely dependent on Taiwan. Nothing against Taiwan, it’s one attack away from being obliterated by China. No company is going to come out of someone’s garage and build a chip fab.

Nobody is going to swoop in and buy a distressed company that owns a bunch of fabs then turn it around if that company keeps getting bailed out.

Right it would make a lot more sense to let this happen and then restrict that the buyers be American (or European, I guess).

Re: U.S. government takes 10% stake in Intel

#507

Post by hluska » Sat, Aug 23, 2025, 2:43 AM UTC

WorkerBee28474 wrote: post #392

hluska wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intel is public and their financials have indicated this would happen. Even at my most irrationally exuberant their stock buybacks didn’t make much sense. I’m not sure what “more transparency would look like to you, but publicly traded companies with audited financials are quite transparent. As for the part about siphoning money, history has shown that taxpayers do well. In 2008, the US government took roughly 80% of…

Don't forget that the US government took roughly 80% of AIG in a move that was later declared illegal and made a roughly $15 billion profit.

> in a move that was later declared illegal

To be fair, a lower court ruled it “illegal exaction” but awarded $0 in damages as the illegal exaction prevented bankruptcy which would have zeroed out the investment anyways. Then the Federal Court of Appeals tossed that ruling as the plaintiffs did not have standing to pursue action.

There is no current ruling that the acquisition was illegal.

Re: U.S. government takes 10% stake in Intel

#508

Post by pfannkuchen » Sat, Aug 23, 2025, 2:43 AM UTC

viraptor wrote: post #414

gizajob wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nvidia has a market cap of 4.5 trillion dollars and everyone is committing hundreds of billions to AI CapEx in their direction - they can afford to organise chip fabs if it really came to it. Ok TSMC and ASML would need to be on board but it could be done. Should be done in fact because even a simple SWOT analysis would show the risk to their business.

If Taiwan becomes practically inaccessible, is there any way another country can setup a competing fab (for the latest generation of chip sizes) without years of R&D? As far as I understand, the practical knowledge of how to do it doesn't exist right now. (Neither does the prerequisite tooling)

Aren’t the actual machines used in the fabs still made in Germany?

Re: U.S. government takes 10% stake in Intel

#509

Post by BeetleB » Sat, Aug 23, 2025, 2:44 AM UTC

BurningFrog wrote: post #503

fluoridation wrote: post #499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would the government need to "demand" to buy a piece of a publicly-traded company? Is 10% of Intel more than what is being traded in the public market?

As I understand it, the government didn't pay anything for these shares.

Why does this keep coming up?

They're paying the rest of the CHIPS Act money. Overall, they're putting in over $10B into Intel.

Re: U.S. government takes 10% stake in Intel

#510

Post by favflam » Sat, Aug 23, 2025, 2:46 AM UTC

hbarka wrote: post #181

Shakedown list: Nvidia 15% of revenue AMD 15% of revenue Intel 10% of capital Who else is next?

Just to add:

what about the part where a single person is dictating taxes on American companies? That does not seem to phase that many people in the tech space...

And what leverage did the administration illegally (without Congressional authorization) apply to get this deal?

At least when the Bush admin did the first part of the financial bailout in 2008, they had Congressional authorization (a bill was passed).