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Apple announces that RCS support is coming to iPhone next year

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Re: Apple announces that RCS support is coming to iPhone next year

#501

Post by kmeisthax »

gigatexal wrote: post #464
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is why I don't buy Google's bad faith shaming of Apple for not adopting RCS. But the point to me is that I don't care whether it's "bad faith" or not, just that (again, to me) it's actually the correct point of view. Messaging integration between iOS and Android, in the US at least, is not just fundamentally broken, but the presence of a single Android user in an iMessage group chat can break the experience fo…

> There is no reason for there to be such messaging incompatibility between iOS and Android. My feeling is that Apple knows the regulatory winds are shifting very much against anticompetitive behavior, and their iMessage incompatibility was just looking like the blatant protectionism that it is. iMessage is and always was for iPhone users to communicate with other iPhone users. It will send messages over SMS as a fal…

>I see all arguments to force Apple to open up iMessage as punishing them for building a platform that people want that the majority of the US has bought into.

I see all arguments that Apple shouldn't be forced to open up iMessage (or implement RCS) as forcing me to have a worse phone experience because I didn't buy an iPhone from the company that said "if you want to sideload apps, buy an Android".

"Just use a third-party app" is not a solution for people who text with the normal messaging app, and I sure as hell would never beg them to migrate to Whatsapp of all things.

>To force Apple to open up iMessage as a protocol to other devices by fiat seems wholly totalitarian and invasive.

You have this backwards. The totalitarian and invasive part is when I have to beg Apple for permission to use software they wrote, to sell apps to people using devices they sold, etc. This bootlicker mentality of "it's Apple's devices and software" needs to die. Apple is the totalitarian, the EU is trying to stop tyranny.

Re: Apple announces that RCS support is coming to iPhone next year

#502

Post by kelnos »

acdha wrote: post #486
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is why I don't buy Google's bad faith shaming of Apple for not adopting RCS. But the point to me is that I don't care whether it's "bad faith" or not, just that (again, to me) it's actually the correct point of view. Messaging integration between iOS and Android, in the US at least, is not just fundamentally broken, but the presence of a single Android user in an iMessage group chat can break the experience fo…

> My feeling is that Apple knows the regulatory winds are shifting very much against anticompetitive behavior, and their iMessage incompatibility was just looking like the blatant protectionism that it is. I think that point would be stronger if anyone else was open. Google used to run an open messaging service but shut it down as part of their failed attempt to compete with Facebook, and their current professed love…

> and their current professed love of open RCS hasn’t extended to allowing anyone else to use their implementation

Google wanted the carriers to all host their own servers. They refused, so Google took it on. Agreed that there are going to be interop issues with Google's RCS implementation, but let's not place all the blame at Google's feet, here.

> I think this is basically Apple calling their bluff and telling them that they need to actually release their proprietary work as open standards. I’m sure that will be their argument to regulators.

Which would be a great outcome!

Re: Apple announces that RCS support is coming to iPhone next year

#503

Post by Smoosh »

matwood wrote: post #439
spiralpolitik wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the trap door in this. Apple is going to implement RCS exactly as the specification says it should be implemented, no more or no less. Any incompatibilities with Android will be laid at Google's door to resolve. Having beaten Apple with the RCS stick for the last year, Google might find themselves now getting beaten back.

Apple also stated they would work to add encryption to the RCS spec, poking Google in the eye with their proprietary model. Of course this might not ever happen, but it's still fun to see big companies taking jabs at each other.

When elephants fight, the grass suffers.

Re: Apple announces that RCS support is coming to iPhone next year

#504

Post by kemayo »

dwaite wrote: post #426
idle_zealot wrote: post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also solvable: encrypt messages (and everything else) in iCloud backups (by default and not as a hidden special mode with scary warnings).

They are encrypted, but (by default) the key is escrowed for recovery by Apple support, which LE can request just as well as the account owner (or other parties with judge decree, such as surviving relatives)

And this is, honestly, a pretty reasonable default. For the average person, the failure mode is "I lost my phone, and I can't remember my iCloud password", not "I really need the cops to not be able to get into my backup", and they'd be super pissed off if Apple couldn't get them their data back. Having good security be available, but not the default, and requiring you to acknowledge the risks is a sensible trade-off for the customer service problems it might cause.

Re: Apple announces that RCS support is coming to iPhone next year

#505

Post by kelnos »

gigatexal wrote: post #464
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is why I don't buy Google's bad faith shaming of Apple for not adopting RCS. But the point to me is that I don't care whether it's "bad faith" or not, just that (again, to me) it's actually the correct point of view. Messaging integration between iOS and Android, in the US at least, is not just fundamentally broken, but the presence of a single Android user in an iMessage group chat can break the experience fo…

> There is no reason for there to be such messaging incompatibility between iOS and Android. My feeling is that Apple knows the regulatory winds are shifting very much against anticompetitive behavior, and their iMessage incompatibility was just looking like the blatant protectionism that it is. iMessage is and always was for iPhone users to communicate with other iPhone users. It will send messages over SMS as a fal…

> In electric car charging Tesla built out the super charger network investing billions in service of making their cars more useful.

And if they hadn't done so by choice, they should absolutely have been required to open up that network to all cars.

Can you imagine a world (for ICE cars) where you'd have to find a car-manufacturer-specific gas station to refuel? That's ridiculous.

Re: Apple announces that RCS support is coming to iPhone next year

#506

Post by factormeta »

commoner wrote: post #80

Excellent. The next step is for Google to release a free and open source way for Android developers to build apps that send RCS messages. Currently, the only messaging app on Android that fully supports RCS is Messages by Google, which is closed source and requires Google Play Services to activate RCS features. Also, end-to-end encryption is not part of the RCS specification, but is a proprietary extension to RCS tha…

IMHO RCS should have not being adopted unless it has encryption built in, or else it is just Google's iMessenger.

At this point, anything messaging platform or financial transaction platform that doesn't implement post-quantum encryption + classic computer encryption ECC (such as superdilithium) should NOT be consider as a standard for messaging for the public. All that ought to be part of the messaging protocol, so we don't end up with GSM 64 bit encryption mess.

Re: Apple announces that RCS support is coming to iPhone next year

#507

Post by [deleted] »

kmeisthax wrote: post #496
hbn wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why I don't buy Google's bad faith shaming of Apple for not adopting RCS. The current version of it that people are using on Android isn't even a "standard" by any normal usage of the term, it's just another Google messaging service. No one can make their own app, and there's barely any carrier adoption, so Google is basically running the whole network. Does this mean that now if you send a message to someone…

When you set up a new phone on Google Fi, the first thing Messages tells you to do is turn RCS off , because for whatever reason Google can't make Fi's native cross-device SMS[0] work with RCS. It's a damned shame. [0] Google Fi integrates with Messages for Web to allow you to use your phone number even if your phone is damaged or destroyed. It's absolutely amazing. I've used this (back when it was Hangouts integrati…

[deleted]

Re: Apple announces that RCS support is coming to iPhone next year

#508

Post by kelnos »

kemayo wrote: post #504
dwaite wrote: post #426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are encrypted, but (by default) the key is escrowed for recovery by Apple support, which LE can request just as well as the account owner (or other parties with judge decree, such as surviving relatives)

And this is, honestly, a pretty reasonable default. For the average person, the failure mode is "I lost my phone, and I can't remember my iCloud password", not "I really need the cops to not be able to get into my backup", and they'd be super pissed off if Apple couldn't get them their data back. Having good security be available, but not the default, and requiring you to acknowledge the risks is a sensible trade-off…

I kinda agree with you, but I think there's also a reasonable argument to be made around the idea that a user might be super pissed off that Apple made the default be not secure against state actors.

Also, how many people actually care all that much about their message history? I know I do (and I have 1GB of SMS/MMS/RCS message history dating back to 2010 that I back up to GDrive nightly), but it seems to me that most people don't care about their message history that much?

Re: Apple announces that RCS support is coming to iPhone next year

#509

Post by kelnos »

dwaite wrote: post #428
f33d5173 wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sms is not end to end encrypted

RCS isn't either - it is a proprietary feature when using Google's client with Google's server.

Sure, but in practice, everyone's RCS is currently E2EE since everyone uses Google's client and Google's server.

This should change, certainly! Hopefully Apple will force Google to open up their implementation and protocol for E2EE so they can build a compatible implementation.

Re: Apple announces that RCS support is coming to iPhone next year

#510

Post by pertymcpert »

MBCook wrote: post #389
wombat-man wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sms will be green, RCS a different shade of puke green.

I don’t know, that seems overly complicated and I don’t think Apple would want to do that. I think they’re quite happy with “iMessage“ and “everything else“. RCS will stay in the second bucket with the same green color.

Agreed. They wouldn’t give RCS the attention by making it a special color. They want people to use iMessage.
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