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Notes on Vision Pro

notes.andymatuschak.org

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Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#501

Post by CPLX »

jstanley wrote: post #494
jb1991 wrote: post #315

I use quite a few Apple products every day of the last 10 years, and I’m very impressed with certainly all the technology and reviews and explanations of how this device works and what the user experience will be. However, this is the first Apple device that really makes me pause. All of the marketing material, the WWDC videos, all of it feels very uncomfortable to see all these people isolating themselves in a room…

You're taking a backwards-looking view of this. Imagine if ancient man, living in the woods, saw people of today living in cities. "It feels very uncomfortable seeing all of these people isolating themselves inside buildings". In fact the very opposite is the case. Now, we go into nature to isolate ourselves. In the future, going into virtual reality will be where you go to interact with others, and you'll take the g…

> people normally respond with an implicit assumption that the technology is not good enough

Because it's not good enough and there's no real plausible means by which it will be good enough.

I mean this was a core argument in the Matrix, and many agreed that it wasn't worth doing even when the virtual reality was absolutely flawless and a land of limitless bounty.

And there's no tech in progress that has a path to that kind of immersive experience. Even if that kind of thing is possible which I have doubts about my great-grand-children will be long dead by the time it shows up.

You're not going to hang out with friends in foreign countries for free you're going to be isolated in your house with a piece of plastic on your face.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#502

Post by lucubratory »

rocketbop wrote: post #436
somsak2 wrote: post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

same antisocial outcome but shittier subjective experience

Shittier in that it’s real rather than virtual?

Shittier in that my partner's hands and sometimes back are wrecked from a relatively short time using them.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#503

Post by underdeserver »

jb1991 wrote: post #315

I use quite a few Apple products every day of the last 10 years, and I’m very impressed with certainly all the technology and reviews and explanations of how this device works and what the user experience will be. However, this is the first Apple device that really makes me pause. All of the marketing material, the WWDC videos, all of it feels very uncomfortable to see all these people isolating themselves in a room…

In short, using a Vision Pro is only going to be reasonable if everyone in the room has one and is using it.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#504

Post by _flux »

grogenaut wrote: post #161
vlovich123 wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you tried a Quest? I found the SW on that fixed all neaseau I experienced on earlier headsets and I think the Quest 2 was even better but I don’t recall at this point.

It's very varied by person. My friend used a index on my 4090 dedicated (All other monitors to the 2080ti). Running at full frames on google earth. He puked his guts out 20 minutes later and took about 40 total minutes to recover. I was watching the stats the whole time. He just suddenly went urp right in the middle of mt rainier. I had just showed him WA state and no ill effects, but I didn't have issues on a pre-re…

I think everyone can agree that artificial locomotion can be motion sickness-inducing. Which you can quite easily do a lot in Google Earths. The faster the worse.

Incidentally Google Earth has comfort options exactly due to that reason, such as the option to narrow the field of view when moving around. I wonder if that option was enabled?

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#505

Post by jdhzzz »

jstanley wrote: post #494
jb1991 wrote: post #315

I use quite a few Apple products every day of the last 10 years, and I’m very impressed with certainly all the technology and reviews and explanations of how this device works and what the user experience will be. However, this is the first Apple device that really makes me pause. All of the marketing material, the WWDC videos, all of it feels very uncomfortable to see all these people isolating themselves in a room…

You're taking a backwards-looking view of this. Imagine if ancient man, living in the woods, saw people of today living in cities. "It feels very uncomfortable seeing all of these people isolating themselves inside buildings". In fact the very opposite is the case. Now, we go into nature to isolate ourselves. In the future, going into virtual reality will be where you go to interact with others, and you'll take the g…

We'll make cars so cheap only the rich can afford horses. We'll make air travel so cheap, only the rich can afford travel by ship. We'll make AR/VR so compelling only the rich can afford travel.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#506

Post by CPLX »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #388
jb1991 wrote: post #315

I use quite a few Apple products every day of the last 10 years, and I’m very impressed with certainly all the technology and reviews and explanations of how this device works and what the user experience will be. However, this is the first Apple device that really makes me pause. All of the marketing material, the WWDC videos, all of it feels very uncomfortable to see all these people isolating themselves in a room…

It'll become accepted I'm sure, if it breaks through; could anyone have imagined walking into a living room 30 years ago [0] and seeing everyone hunched over a phone? Or 80 years ago and seeing everyone around a television? I mean I get what you mean, but I also think that some things get normalized in subsequent generations. Our 15 year old and his gf have their phones out at all times, frequently switching to inter…

Seeing people hunched over watching the news isn't honestly that much of a stretch: https://twitter.com/HistoryInPics/status/411376204231753728?...

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#507

Post by DonaldPShimoda »

jstanley wrote: post #494
jb1991 wrote: post #315

I use quite a few Apple products every day of the last 10 years, and I’m very impressed with certainly all the technology and reviews and explanations of how this device works and what the user experience will be. However, this is the first Apple device that really makes me pause. All of the marketing material, the WWDC videos, all of it feels very uncomfortable to see all these people isolating themselves in a room…

You're taking a backwards-looking view of this. Imagine if ancient man, living in the woods, saw people of today living in cities. "It feels very uncomfortable seeing all of these people isolating themselves inside buildings". In fact the very opposite is the case. Now, we go into nature to isolate ourselves. In the future, going into virtual reality will be where you go to interact with others, and you'll take the g…

Asimov kind-of wrote about this phenomenon in 1956's "The Naked Sun", the second of his Elijah Bailey series. I won't give plot spoilers, but the main connection is that a group of people on another planet have grown accustomed to virtual holographic "viewing" being the main mode of interacting with other people, while physically being in their presence is deemed unwholesome, embarrassing, or otherwise uncouth, causing people to go to great extents to avoid it.

I don't know that Vision Pro is necessarily taking us on that sort of path; I'll probably hold my judgment until they've proliferated enough that I actually know someone who has one. But your point that the virtual world is becoming where we go to interact with other people while physical spaces are used for individual isolation is a good one, and my contribution here is to tie it to a book that is over 65 years old to show that it's not even a particularly new idea.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#508

Post by cbm-vic-20 »

Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #354
jb1991 wrote: post #315

I use quite a few Apple products every day of the last 10 years, and I’m very impressed with certainly all the technology and reviews and explanations of how this device works and what the user experience will be. However, this is the first Apple device that really makes me pause. All of the marketing material, the WWDC videos, all of it feels very uncomfortable to see all these people isolating themselves in a room…

Wearing a VR helmet at a family event is a big NO. I'd rather use a tech that would use footage from multiple cameras in the room, then build a sort of 3D-recording of some moment that I would be able to immerse myself in later, with full freedom of movement and pause-rewind. Of course it would need some tech to fill in the blind zones obscured from cameras, but likely with generative AI and data from before and afte…

> Wearing a VR helmet at a family event is a big NO.

Imagine how that scene with the dad filming the kids playing would look if the kids had the Vision goggles on, too.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#509

Post by Turskarama »

bee_rider wrote: post #498
Turskarama wrote: post #460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Until it crashes, and then you crash. It's not proper AR, It's VR with passthrough which means it's purely active. If it fails it goes black.

I can’t imagine putting a CPU as complicated as the M2 in between my eyeballs and the road. It is too big and complicated. I guess we don’t really know what the R1 does. It is hypothetically possible that there’s a failsafe road-eyeball path just goes through that chip, maybe that could be made as reliable as various other critical computers…

It's not as failsafe as glass.

I guarantee you Mercedes or Lamborghini would _love_ to have a fully enclosed interior with screens instead of windows, but it's a critical safety feature and anything that makes it less likely to work is just not happening.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#510

Post by 2muchcoffeeman »

aziaziazi wrote: post #440
2muchcoffeeman wrote: post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s been backlash to being on phones all day. iOS even guilt trips you every week with stats. It even guilt trips you for being too sedentary. If anyone is going to guilt trip you for doing too much of something, probably apple.

You should understand the guilt is on the recipient side (you). Here the sender (Apple) may have genuine concern about their users health or have marketing incentives to express the same concern. Probably a mix of both.

Regardless of whether they are doing it out of genuine concern or to cover their own asses, they aren't reporting my usage or lack of activity so that I can not do something about it. If they wanted me addicted, they would do something else.
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