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Apple's director of machine learning resigns due to return to office work

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Re: Apple's director of machine learning resigns due to return to office work

#501

Post by thiht »

jstx1 wrote: post #493
Glavnokoman wrote: post #491

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. I do not think he's implying it is a bad thing by itself. Instead he explicitly says that those are the people who try to solve their problems at expense of others.

The expense of others is a point that works both ways. You could equally say that someone who insists on being remote because it's better for their family life is preventing/slowing down the return to office, and that's at the expense of people who prefer to be in the office. But I wouldn't put it that way because I don't think it makes for a productive conversation - office or remote, people like what they like and…

It doesn’t really work both ways though. Remote fans don’t force everyone to be remote.

Re: Apple's director of machine learning resigns due to return to office work

#502

Post by greggman3 »

random though. was walking around union square in SF today. It dead. Sooo many stores gone. Than walked down to the FiDi and it's dead too. With no one going to work the business that relied on the workers for business had to close up.

It made me curious how to redistrict things. If those buildings turned into apartments the business would have a much better time and that area could be even more walkable

Re: Apple's director of machine learning resigns due to return to office work

#503

Post by cteiosanu »

mjan22640 wrote: post #500
malwarebytess wrote: post #483

Warning: Hot Take. I genuinely believe many people who prefer working in an office versus at home have unfulfilling social lives or bad home lives. The social dynamics, competition, in physical offices fills the void in their lives. Also seems like most of the people clamoring for a return to the office are also climbers & middle managers. For some work a physical presence is required not just preferable, but for mos…

In my experience, young man at the start of their carrier are willing to go to great lengths to work from home. After they marry and get kids, they become willing to go great lengths to work from the office.

Exactly the opposite from my experience.

Re: Apple's director of machine learning resigns due to return to office work

#504

Post by klabb3 »

haroldp wrote: post #418
klabb3 wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The free-rider problem applies to basically any system with cohorts. It's part of the incentive structure, for sure, but it's not the only part. As long as you accept utility in collective systems (ie if you're anything but a pure anarcho-capitalist), you recognize that in some cases (such as public roads) the value outweigh the costs of the free-rider problems. Once you're past that point, it should be all about tra…

Anarcho-capitalism does not oppose unions. Free association is a libertarian principle.

That's true. The point I was trying to make is that everyone-but-ancaps implicitly support at least one collective system. I just picked that one because it's rare.

Re: Apple's director of machine learning resigns due to return to office work

#505

Post by ShamelessC »

ineedasername wrote: post #338
ShamelessC wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work 20 hours a week now, fully remote, making (a little bit) more than I used to doing 40. Granted, it's a machine learning gig and I took the pandemic to brush up on these skills, but it's definitely achievable in this market to have a good work/life balance.

Contract work?

Yes, path to full-time plus benefits is available, but I very much need the extra time to get back to 100% these days.

Re: Apple's director of machine learning resigns due to return to office work

#506

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

nsotelo wrote: post #499
jstx1 wrote: post #493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The expense of others is a point that works both ways. You could equally say that someone who insists on being remote because it's better for their family life is preventing/slowing down the return to office, and that's at the expense of people who prefer to be in the office. But I wouldn't put it that way because I don't think it makes for a productive conversation - office or remote, people like what they like and…

These are not morally equivalent. The office-worker wants others to modify everyone's behaviour to support them, whereas the remote worker just wants to control their own behaviour. The remote worker is completely ambivalent to where others want to work.

It's entirely possible that at least some of those who prefer to work at the office are equally ambivalent about what others what to do.

Re: Apple's director of machine learning resigns due to return to office work

#507

Post by jstx1 »

nsotelo wrote: post #499
jstx1 wrote: post #493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The expense of others is a point that works both ways. You could equally say that someone who insists on being remote because it's better for their family life is preventing/slowing down the return to office, and that's at the expense of people who prefer to be in the office. But I wouldn't put it that way because I don't think it makes for a productive conversation - office or remote, people like what they like and…

These are not morally equivalent. The office-worker wants others to modify everyone's behaviour to support them, whereas the remote worker just wants to control their own behaviour. The remote worker is completely ambivalent to where others want to work.

I'm not buying this.

- In a big team if everyone is in-office and 1 person is remote, that person certainly cares about being the only remote person. Maybe some people would be okay with it, but being the only remote person has been known to be a not-so-great working arrangement even before the pandemic. So you can't say that remote people don't care where others work.

- If enough people choose remote, they're forcing everyone else to be remote too (whether they attend the office or not) because the communication model for the whole team has to be different now. <<< This is remote people modifying everyone else's behaviour to support them.

Re: Apple's director of machine learning resigns due to return to office work

#508

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

thiht wrote: post #501
jstx1 wrote: post #493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The expense of others is a point that works both ways. You could equally say that someone who insists on being remote because it's better for their family life is preventing/slowing down the return to office, and that's at the expense of people who prefer to be in the office. But I wouldn't put it that way because I don't think it makes for a productive conversation - office or remote, people like what they like and…

It doesn’t really work both ways though. Remote fans don’t force everyone to be remote.

Office fans aren't a homogeneous whole.

Perhaps it's likely at least some managers want more people to come to the office.

It's also likely that some people who aren't managers, regular employees, just prefer the office.

Re: Apple's director of machine learning resigns due to return to office work

#509

Post by jstx1 »

thiht wrote: post #501
jstx1 wrote: post #493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The expense of others is a point that works both ways. You could equally say that someone who insists on being remote because it's better for their family life is preventing/slowing down the return to office, and that's at the expense of people who prefer to be in the office. But I wouldn't put it that way because I don't think it makes for a productive conversation - office or remote, people like what they like and…

It doesn’t really work both ways though. Remote fans don’t force everyone to be remote.

They do. They might be able to say that they don't care where their coworkers are (and I believe them), but when enough people are remote, their colleagues are forced into a remote working model too because the team needs to communicate in a different way now.

How people work is a mutual agreement, not something that's being done to one group by another.

Re: Apple's director of machine learning resigns due to return to office work

#510

Post by curiousgal »

malwarebytess wrote: post #483

Warning: Hot Take. I genuinely believe many people who prefer working in an office versus at home have unfulfilling social lives or bad home lives. The social dynamics, competition, in physical offices fills the void in their lives. Also seems like most of the people clamoring for a return to the office are also climbers & middle managers. For some work a physical presence is required not just preferable, but for mos…

> fills the void in their lives

Why is that a bad thing? We have a problem and this is a solution.

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