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Long Beach has temporarily suspended container stacking limitations

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Re: Long Beach has temporarily suspended container stacking limitations

#501

Post by fragmede »

baybal2 wrote: post #222
Jolter wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And hence the extreme explosion in shipping prices, I assume. Anyone buying freight from China to LA now has to also pay for returning the empty. What I’ve been told is the price for shipping one container has increased 10-fold because of this.

Yes, it's cheaper to dump the container, and buy new one in China. Sounds absurd, but that's how it is.

What are the challenges in crossing the Pacific Ocean by boat? How much hardware would be involved with making individual containers seaworthy? Disposable cargo ships, anyone?

Re: Long Beach has temporarily suspended container stacking limitations

#502

Post by eecc »

noirbot wrote: post #483
eecc wrote: post #481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, you won’t get animals randomly wandering on the tracks if you lay them over concrete bridge structures, costs a tad more also in terms of concrete production emissions but you can offset that by running the trains on renewables throughout their lifetime

Sure - there's answers to a lot of it, but you're still talking about having to acquire a ton of land that's likely in the middle of nowhere and putting in a big construction project. It's not too dissimilar to the sort of work that's required, and the risks associated with, adding new oil pipelines, and those have been a complete mess of corruption and environmental and land-rights protests.

Really? I don't think you'd have the same problems.

Sure, randomly contrarian NIMBYs will fight to their last breath over anything, but one thing is an overhead train track, another is an oil pipeline with all the environmental hazards of an oil spill.

Of course, corruption and garden variety incompetence are a variable, but all large projects are vulnerable to that.

Re: Long Beach has temporarily suspended container stacking limitations

#503

Post by eecc »

KptMarchewa wrote: post #499
booleangate wrote: post #491

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unsightliness maybe, but also California is no stranger to earthquakes. Stacking up to 6 high sounds like a deadly and expensive game of dominos.

They can be stacked higher on a container ship when full. And ships are subjected to what someone could think of as a "quake" - waves.

for sure, but the harmonic characteristics of sea waves are rather different.

But yeah, you do have a point.

Re: Long Beach has temporarily suspended container stacking limitations

#504

Post by bombcar »

hansel_der wrote: post #448
bombcar wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For awhile that’s beneficial to the shipper until all containers are empty in LA and none exist in China to fill.

pretty sure chinese companies will be happy to produce new containers for a small fee

I suppose at some point it becomes cheaper to melt down the containers and ship them back as raw steel to be rebuilt in China.

Re: Long Beach has temporarily suspended container stacking limitations

#505

Post by Symbiote »

seoaeu wrote: post #280
Symbiote wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, since this alternative allows for an apartment building with a couple of shops on the ground floor (normal in most of the world), and any other reasonable mixed development. No one is suggesting heavy industry should be allowed in a residential area.

A set of local laws that says "heavy industry isn't allowed in residential areas" is a zoning code

It's a planning / permitting code, but the distinction from a zoning code has already been discussed in this thread.

Re: Long Beach has temporarily suspended container stacking limitations

#506

Post by noirbot »

eecc wrote: post #502
noirbot wrote: post #483

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure - there's answers to a lot of it, but you're still talking about having to acquire a ton of land that's likely in the middle of nowhere and putting in a big construction project. It's not too dissimilar to the sort of work that's required, and the risks associated with, adding new oil pipelines, and those have been a complete mess of corruption and environmental and land-rights protests.

Really? I don't think you'd have the same problems. Sure, randomly contrarian NIMBYs will fight to their last breath over anything, but one thing is an overhead train track, another is an oil pipeline with all the environmental hazards of an oil spill. Of course, corruption and garden variety incompetence are a variable, but all large projects are vulnerable to that.

Sure, but it's not just the construction. The concern is the long-term damage of moving freight over the line and the potential for accidents later, just like oil spills. There's plenty of hazardous freight that could be a problem in the case of a derailment, especially with over-head tracks where a derailment would be far more catastrophic.

It's also not just contrarian NIMBY folks - there's plenty of pushback on putting lines through places for well-supported reasons. Nowhere is "the middle of nowhere." Someone lives there, often people who have been displaced to there because of bad policy elsewhere.

Re: Long Beach has temporarily suspended container stacking limitations

#507

Post by CodeWriter23 »

Ichthypresbyter wrote: post #475
CodeWriter23 wrote: post #473

@Animats said > A place that just stacks empty containers 2 high probably only has large forklifts. The special equipment for high stacking is far more expensive, and only bought if you need it.[2] Some facts: 1) Container Height: 8'6". Add approx 4" for the lift slots on the bottom. 2) Forklift with 22' lift available from Sunbelt = 3 Container Height / 50% increase in yard capacity https://www.sunbeltrentals.com/eq…

Those don't look like they can lift a shipping container.

We lift empty containers with smaller forklifts at my place of employment. The target for this problem space is stacking empty not full containers.

Re: Long Beach has temporarily suspended container stacking limitations

#509

Post by seoaeu »

Symbiote wrote: post #505
seoaeu wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A set of local laws that says "heavy industry isn't allowed in residential areas" is a zoning code

It's a planning / permitting code, but the distinction from a zoning code has already been discussed in this thread.

And to quote one of the other commenters in that other part of the thread: "That’s zoning with a different name."

Re: Long Beach has temporarily suspended container stacking limitations

#510

Post by kayamon »

aerosmile wrote: post #479
throwawayboise wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I laugh at the idea that the US military might be engaged domestically in helping Amazon and Ebay drop-shippers get cheap chinese crap to 5 year olds who will play with it for maybe a week before it breaks or they lose interest.

This comment explains all I needed to know about why so few people in this country are taking this crisis seriously. The understanding is that this is the Amazon drop shippers who are whining, so why bother? There are countless counter arguments provided by other commenters, so I will just add this - the analogy with Lehman Brothers is a gift that keeps on giving; when they failed, there were also people saying "it's…

> The author of the above comment is obviously ignorant
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