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The Framework Laptop is now shipping

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Re: The Framework Laptop is now shipping

#501

Post by seanalltogether »

Koshkin wrote: post #489
d--b wrote: post #484

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I am not an Apple devotee, and I think that what you say is generally right. But Apple releasing M1 laptops kind of changed the game...

Well, I am not an Apple devotee, either; moreover, my impression has been that, unlike IBM or Microsoft or Sun, neither Apple itself nor any of its products have so far made any impact on my life or work whatsoever. I may well be wrong, but I am not even sure if anything was much different had Apple never existed in the first place.

Does the phone you carry in your pocket look more like a flip-phone, a blackberry, or an iphone?

Re: The Framework Laptop is now shipping

#503

Post by rsynnott »

midasuni wrote: post #500
rsynnott wrote: post #482

Earlier quoted context omitted.

High-end 15" laptops already have 100Wh batteries, and 100Wh is the practical maximum. So abandoning LPDDR would lead to a reduction in battery life on the high end, which probably isn't going to fly.

> isn't going to fly. Literally - 100Wh batteries are maximum you can take on planes

I promise that was an unintentional pun. But yeah, that's the limiting factor.

Re: The Framework Laptop is now shipping

#504

Post by tootie »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #261
victor9000 wrote: post #254

This device is seriously the answer to all my laptop problems. I really like the form factor of the XPS 13, but now I'm stuck with the complete inability to upgrade RAM. In what universe is that normal? Then I accidentally nuked the USB-C ports on the left side when it got wet, and now I'm left with a single port for everything, including charging. What!? Why? I tore the entire thing apart and there's just no way to…

>but now I'm stuck with the complete inability to upgrade RAM. In what universe is that normal? Apple's? And Dell's? And Lenovo's? And every other electronics manufacturare who benefits form planned obsolescence and selling more hardware.

I bought a few Acer's for my kids and upgrades were still really easy. I actually bought extra RAM and an SSD and had my daughter install them and it wasn't difficult.

Re: The Framework Laptop is now shipping

#505

Post by morganvachon »

vimacs2 wrote: post #429
morganvachon wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Dell, HP, Lenovo, even Fujitsu-Siemens have been making thin laptops with upgradable RAM for years now (XPS, X1 Carbon ... You're just throwing names out there without even knowing what you're talking about. The very first generation X1 Carbon came with soldered RAM and no upgrade path, and that hasn't changed yet. I know this because I've owned several generations of that laptop. I just checked Wikipedia to back u…

I would point out though that while he might have been wrong on the X1 Carbon, you still have not really dismantled the key argument - that you don't need to embrace soldered RAM to get laptops that are thin enough . At a certain point, you're just going to end up with an experience that is objectively worse since keyboards start having more and more give the thinner you make them (not to mention far worse feel). I'd…

I wasn't trying to dismantle an argument, just pointing out that the parent had no clue what they were talking about, and a little research would make for a stronger position to argue from (and save some embarrassment).

I actually prefer laptops with upgradeable components and I'm definitely weighing replacing my two aging Thinkpad laptops (running OpenBSD and Void Linux respectively) with the Framework Laptop. I had briefly considered a M1 MacBook Air but I already have a M1 Mac mini and I try to stay diverse between form factors. The specs on the Framework are fantastic; even the i5 is a powerhouse, comparable to i7 desktops from just two years ago[1]. With the modular bays I could easily have Void on the main storage and OpenBSD on a module and choose between the two. I already have compatible RAM and M.2 storage laying about so the DIY SKU is a no-brainer.

As for keyboards I'm right there with you; the higher travel on the Framework's keyboard is another selling point in my opinion.

[1] https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare/Intel-i7-8700-vs-Intel-...

Re: The Framework Laptop is now shipping

#506

Post by specialist »

ribit wrote: post #286
victor9000 wrote: post #254

This device is seriously the answer to all my laptop problems. I really like the form factor of the XPS 13, but now I'm stuck with the complete inability to upgrade RAM. In what universe is that normal? Then I accidentally nuked the USB-C ports on the left side when it got wet, and now I'm left with a single port for everything, including charging. What!? Why? I tore the entire thing apart and there's just no way to…

> In what universe is that normal? In a universe where you want high-performance energy efficient RAM. Premium ultracompact laptops have long moved to LPDDR which is both faster and consumes significantly less energy than regular modular DDR. And LPDDR does not come in DIMMs. And then you have Apple who are using custom package technology with custom RAM chips to cut down RAM power consumption to under one watt activ…

Please forgive the hi-jack...

FWIW, the book Design Rules: The Power of Modularity systematically explores the tradeoffs.

https://www.amazon.com/Design-Rules-Vol-Power-Modularity/dp/...

Written by two economists, it's the only prescriptive definition of architecture that I've managed to find. Influenced me deeply.

Re: The Framework Laptop is now shipping

#507

Post by nrp »

heywherelogingo wrote: post #454
Aeolun wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m curious about these responses. They kind of read like “Yes, but we don’t want to commit to anything right now.”

Sounds sensible. They're working on it but wouldn't want to have an unexpected obstacle turn into broken promises.

That is right. I’ve answered a few questions in these comments where the answer is basically: It’s technically possible, there is a plausible market need, we think it is worthwhile to do, and we’ve designed for it architecturally, but we can’t commit to a specific date because there are always implementation risks, supplier risks (especially this year), and a large number of programs we have to prioritize between as a small team.

Re: The Framework Laptop is now shipping

#508

Post by nrp »

robinsoh wrote: post #383
pabs3 wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if eink would be feasible.

> I wonder if eink would be feasible. It would depend on your meaning. If you mean taking a device like a Dasung or a Onyx and connecting to the laptop and using it as another screen, then sure, that should work fine. If you mean taking out the LCD and popping in a raw eink panel, then no because they have different interfaces. Speaking of which, I don't see any clear specification on frame.work for the LCD connector…

We use a relatively common 40-pin I-PEX connector. We’ll be publishing more detail on it as we have time to.

Re: The Framework Laptop is now shipping

#509

Post by nrp »

OJFord wrote: post #362
nrp wrote: post #4

Framework Founder here! I am happy to answer any questions on the product.

Can you give the roughest of indications for European orders (UK for me, if it's going to be that granular)? I've been signed up to the mailing list to be notified since first post here, really looking forward to it; I've been tempted to use Canadian pre-order via a favour ever since that opened up, but should I just be patient, will it be 'soon'? Do you anticipate that (if this goes as well as I hope and assume it w…

We’re aiming to be in the UK, parts of Europe, and parts of Asia by year’s end.

We plan to keep compatible within the current chassis for the foreseeable future. This means that as we support new CPU platforms, existing users can upgrade to them by replacing their mainboard (and in some cases memory).

Re: The Framework Laptop is now shipping

#510

Post by IncRnd »

ddalex wrote: post #432
littlestymaar wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A chocolate tablet typically stores 4000kJ of energy. Yes that's 15 hand grenades, what are we waiting for: ban chocolate tablets now! And don't get me started on flour, not only it stores a ton of energy (50 grenades per kg) but it's also highly explosive! [1] [1]: (only with the right air to flour ratio of course, but accident happen every once in a while: https://www.grupa-wolff.com/a-tragic-flour-explosion/ )

The chocolate bar doesn't start a violent fire if pierced. If it would we could power our laptops with chocolate :) The flour conditions of exploding are far more difficult to achieve than a LiIon battery conditions - orders of magnitude difference.

In a world, somewhere, Flowers and Lions power laptops.
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