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The Framework Laptop is now shipping

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Re: The Framework Laptop is now shipping

#411

Post by ribit »

Const-me wrote: post #358
ribit wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In what universe is that normal? In a universe where you want high-performance energy efficient RAM. Premium ultracompact laptops have long moved to LPDDR which is both faster and consumes significantly less energy than regular modular DDR. And LPDDR does not come in DIMMs. And then you have Apple who are using custom package technology with custom RAM chips to cut down RAM power consumption to under one watt activ…

RAM energy efficiency is not important because very small fraction of the energy consumed by other components. It only somewhat matters for power consumption in sleep mode when the RAM is the only component being powered, but at least on Windows that’s solvable with a fast SSD and hibernation.

RAM energy efficiency is extremely important because it is a significant part of the baseline power consumption. Power-hungry components like CPU and GPU can be run in the lowest power state most of the time, so it really comes down to RAM and the display. If you have a 60Wh battery and want to get 15 hours battery life, you need to get your idle power consumption under 4 watts. So even 0.5 watt in baseline RAM consumption makes a huge difference.

Re: The Framework Laptop is now shipping

#412

Post by MikusR »

Const-me wrote: post #365
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to be misinformed. Everyone loves to hate Intel (and rightfully so) but Tiger Lake has better IPC and implicitly better single threaded performance than Ryzen. In real world tasks (web browsing, opening an IDE) it often comes on top of AMD. It only loses to AMD in multi threaded benchmarks because of the lower core count (everyone loves to flex Cinebench scores online, but I buy my laptop to use, not run ben…

> In real world tasks (web browsing, opening an IDE) My real-world task is not opening an IDE, it’s using that IDE. Modern C++ compilers are using all available CPU cores just fine. > It only loses to AMD in multi threaded benchmarks These are the only workloads I care about. Not just compilation, many other things as well. You only need single-threaded performance for 2 things, for the stuff that’s inherently serial…

Also web is still single threaded.

Re: The Framework Laptop is now shipping

#414

Post by unpixer »

chipotle_coyote wrote: post #182
dylan604 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, my 2019 Macbook has all 4 arrow keys half-height, but the left/right keys are bottom aligned with the down key rather than .keys { vertical-align: center; } I try my best to never use those keys.

That was the first one that switched back, I think. Personally, I prefer that design to the full-height left/right and half-height up/down keys, because it's just easier for me to find the right arrows that way. (I'd prefer full height on all of them, but I recognize a laptop keyboard is space-constrained, at least if it's 13" or below. The 16" MBP has less excuse.)

I don't really care so much about half-height left and right keys versus full-height ones, but I've discovered that what I really hate is when half-height PgUp and PgDn keys are on either side of a half-height Up arrow key. This means I constantly hit PgUp/PgDn with my pinkie when reaching for Left or Right (and ultimately on my current machine I had to override this with a keyboard remap).

Re: The Framework Laptop is now shipping

#416

Post by morganvachon »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #294
the_biot wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a bunch of nonsense. These are tiny laptops, and every bit of space inside is used. Soldering on RAM chips is an obvious optimization to make the laptop thinner. What were you expecting, a DIMM slot that's taller than the actual laptop body?

>What a bunch of nonsense. These are tiny laptops, and every bit of space inside is used. Soldering on RAM chips is an obvious optimization to make the laptop thinner. THIS is nonsense. Dell, HP, Lenovo, even Fujitsu-Siemens have been making thin laptops with upgradable RAM for years now (XPS, X1 Carbon and LIFEBOOK series come to mind). Just recently they abandoned this and moved to soldering everything. The Framewo…

> Dell, HP, Lenovo, even Fujitsu-Siemens have been making thin laptops with upgradable RAM for years now (XPS, X1 Carbon...

You're just throwing names out there without even knowing what you're talking about. The very first generation X1 Carbon came with soldered RAM and no upgrade path, and that hasn't changed yet. I know this because I've owned several generations of that laptop. I just checked Wikipedia to back up my memory before posting and yes, every X1 Carbon has had soldered RAM going all the way back to the first generation with Ivy Bridge.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ThinkPad_X1_series#X1_Carbon

Re: The Framework Laptop is now shipping

#417

Post by ribit »

nspattak wrote: post #301
ribit wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In what universe is that normal? In a universe where you want high-performance energy efficient RAM. Premium ultracompact laptops have long moved to LPDDR which is both faster and consumes significantly less energy than regular modular DDR. And LPDDR does not come in DIMMs. And then you have Apple who are using custom package technology with custom RAM chips to cut down RAM power consumption to under one watt activ…

Can you please point us to some technical report or something where they document the energy saving of moving from dimm slots to soldered ram/ssd ?

By the way, check out reviews of the Framework Laptop for a first-hand illustration of this effect. They seem to be getting 40-50% lower battery runtimes than laptops with comparable specs. That's example the problem — of you design for modularity, you have to leave some optimizations on the table.

Re: The Framework Laptop is now shipping

#418

Post by chrisseaton »

deathanatos wrote: post #237

> We designed the adapter to be modular, with both the 1m AC cable and 2m USB-C cable detachable and replaceable, reducing waste in case your cat chews through one of them. Thank you. This is one of my chief annoyances with Lenovo's connector, and it smacks of planned obsolescence, since there is no other conceivable reason for it. I think every brick I've had has failed in the same spot: between the connector and co…

Isn't this exactly the same as Apple's design?

Re: The Framework Laptop is now shipping

#420

Post by Karsteski »

dehrmann wrote: post #253
proyb2 wrote: post #244

I’m not sure how to feel about this warning notice? “This product can expose you to chemicals including Nickel (Metallic), which is known to the State of California to cause cancer, and Bisphenol A (BPA), which is known to the State of California to cause birth defects or other reproductive harm. For more information go to www.P65Warnings.ca.gov“

I see a similar warning on balsamic vinegar, and I've seen it at a Starbucks for coffee.

It's like the hazard warnings I've read on the SDS for water :)
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