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Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

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501–510 of 990 posts

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#501

Apple Support: Wait until the light turn green, and then put a tape cover on your camera. ️

Or you know, if you never see a green light, you never had any problem. How about that? Tin foil much?

And what if you see a green light? And you're not the one using the camera?

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#502
post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I expect you are probably correct, but it doesn't really matter. If you don't want to be filmed, the correct engineering approach is not to have a camera pointed at you 24/7. It is a bit like the gun rule of not pointing a gun at things you don't want to shoot - sure, the trigger should be enough of a control, but accidents happen. If you spend your entire life with a camera pointed at your face, your face (and activ…

Indeed, I'm a little surprised Apple didn't follow the Thinkpad approach of simply having a sliding piece with an aperture that extremely obviously blocks the camera. Surely Apple can't seriously think their users would be confused by this and complain... I don't think my desktop computer's webcam is likely to get hacked either but I'm still going to unplug it when I'm not using it. Complex systems are hard to secure…

I can see Jony Ive's head exploding: "Sullying my perfect, smooth, invented-new-aluminum-machining-technology-to-make-it-possible masterpiece with some latch?! Why don't you go work for Dell."

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#503
post #83

It's so interesting that we've arrived in a state where people, for good reason, cannot trust "their" devices in the slightest. On the computer where you do all your online banking or taxes or whatever, you don't feel safe without sticking something over the camera. Makes me very proud to support Purism laptops with their camera/microphone hardware killswitches and FOSS software (I know FOSS is not the same as secure…

> It's so interesting that we've arrived in a state where people, for good reason, cannot trust "their" devices in the slightest. On the computer where you do all your online banking or taxes or whatever, you don't feel safe without sticking something over the camera. That really doesn't mean anything, because the people who post on here just like to not trust things. It makes them look cool when they're posting. You…

I don't follow you. Lots of people put stickers over their cameras, not just hacker news posters, and furthermore, I think we all agree they have good reason to do so, it's not just posturing to look cool. (Also to me, "I bought a $2700 computer and I can't even trust it not to photograph me" is the opposite of cool, but I digress.) Also, I trust my chair, my bicycle, my car to a great extent (made in 2001 though), and quite a few other kinds of technology. So I don't understand what you're saying here.

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#504
post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people? Sure. Most people on hacker news? Unclear. I think a really large portion of users here would be extremely good attack targets. Developers with privileged access to source code and operations staff with privileged access to systems make up a significant portion of the users here. Besides: Most people don't accidentally want to show up on a video conference while undressed when they accidentally hit the w…

100%. The bank I used to work at had a part of the employee handbook dedicated to what happens if you're kidnapped. We're just being naive and casual as we are wont to do. Bro don't worry have another free granola bar. And in fact one of the devs was poached by a shady bunch of foreign looking suits who would have fit right in with big brother. In all fairness you have a split second between the light coming on and t…

120%. I used to work in an industry where a developer was killed in a drive-by shooting, after he reported certain code to the regulatory agency.

Generally speaking - as developers type away on their packet handling or authentication code, they all too naively believe they won't be a target of a new friend or bribe.

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#505

None of the proposed solutions do anything to actually stop the camera from taking a picture of you. Sure, you'll see the indicator light up for 3 seconds. But the attacker still got what they needed. Camera covers have nothing to do with identifying compromise. They are strictly for preventing compromise. This is exactly opposite what a camera indicator light does, and thus the indicator should not be considered a "…

This is a great point. This could be solved in software at the OS-level with a permission dialog that popped up every time the camera was asked to be activated (as opposed to an ongoing website permission). Which would be overly annoying for most, but appreciated by a privacy-conscious minority. But unless Apple ever did that (doubtful), once you see the green light it's already too late. It does make me wonder if so…

This is something you can use OverSight for, it opens a permission banner each time the camera/mic is accessed, with an option to whitelist apps. https://objective-see.com/products/oversight.html

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#506

None of the proposed solutions do anything to actually stop the camera from taking a picture of you. Sure, you'll see the indicator light up for 3 seconds. But the attacker still got what they needed. Camera covers have nothing to do with identifying compromise. They are strictly for preventing compromise. This is exactly opposite what a camera indicator light does, and thus the indicator should not be considered a "…

This is a great point. This could be solved in software at the OS-level with a permission dialog that popped up every time the camera was asked to be activated (as opposed to an ongoing website permission). Which would be overly annoying for most, but appreciated by a privacy-conscious minority. But unless Apple ever did that (doubtful), once you see the green light it's already too late. It does make me wonder if so…

Personally I think a hardware switch that disabled the mic and camera is the best route. Engineers would have to be honest in actually connecting the switch directly to the camera rather than resorting to some firmware tom-foolery. Then you could wire the indicator to the switch as a visual reminder that your camera is attached to your PC.

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#508
post #493
post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I expect you are probably correct, but it doesn't really matter. If you don't want to be filmed, the correct engineering approach is not to have a camera pointed at you 24/7. It is a bit like the gun rule of not pointing a gun at things you don't want to shoot - sure, the trigger should be enough of a control, but accidents happen. If you spend your entire life with a camera pointed at your face, your face (and activ…

The camera can't turn on without power going to the light. The user controls which apps get to turn on the camera...no one else.

Would you notice it if it was one frame every 15 minutes for example? As for the second point, sure. In theory. If there’s no bugs or vulnerabilities or backdoors

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#509

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How could it be equally lucrative? The amount of information someone can gather from a camera is much smaller than what you could gather from a microphone in a given room. If I am in a conference room talking about strategy, an uncovered camera will just pick me up. The microphone will capture everyone’s conversation.

If you have your laptop in your bedroom, an uncovered camera can provide material for blackmail easily and fast.

Honestly, unless you're cheating on your SO, society is growing increasingly tolerant/indifferent of most of the other things you could see on a webcam

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#510

As an alternative to a camera cover, use the camera indicator light to determine if your camera is active I've been thinking about privacy all wrong. I thought it was about preventing access to my data... but Apple has cleared up my misunderstanding and now I know that it's just about being notified when my data is stolen. Everyone feel free to post your credit card numbers... your privacy is secure, since your bank…

> I've been thinking about privacy all wrong. I thought it was about preventing access to my data... but Apple has cleared up my misunderstanding and now I know that it's just about being notified when my data is stolen. This comment makes absolutely zero sense in more ways than one. First, in the post Apple also says how you can control exactly which apps have access to the camera in the privacy settings. And, like,…

So you're saying everyone should always be staring at their webcam to make sure the light is not on? It isn't like there's a subfield of Human Factors studying Cognitive load[1], saying that people don't do a good job at what you're saying people should do. Also, have you ever heard of a rootkit?

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_load

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