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Eat less meat: UN climate change report calls for change to human diet

nature.com

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Re: Eat less meat: UN climate change report calls for change to human diet

#501

Post by 0xffff2 »

frankbreetz wrote: post #452
cronix wrote: post #420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What will happen to veggie prices when we go to a $15 min wage? Do other farms not benefit from illegal labor?

It takes considerably less labor to farm vegetables than to farm vegetables and feed those vegetables to animals and also take care of those animals. So vegetable prices may go up, but considerably less so when compared to meat.

Got a source for that? I've never been involved in commercial vegetable farming or large-scale cattle raising, but small-scale ranching is really not that labor intensive in my experience.

Re: Eat less meat: UN climate change report calls for change to human diet

#502

Post by chrisco255 »

markstos wrote: post #336
chrisco255 wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More than 90% of a beef cow's body weight comes from pasture land grass and hay. When's the last time the Midwestern plains area of the United States was forest? Before the beef industry, 50-100 million bison roamed the plains. It turns out that ruminants like bison and cows are essential components of a grassland ecosystem.

But killing them for food is not.

Yes it is. They are prey animals and they literally evolved to be prey. Incidentally we also killed off most of the major predators around the world so there are few wolves, saber tooth cats, etc to keep population numbers controlled.

Re: Eat less meat: UN climate change report calls for change to human diet

#503

Post by [deleted] »

koolba wrote: post #339
TheBeardKing wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We've been trying to cut our meat consumption, but the cooking complexity is exactly my issue. We're lazy but healthy eaters, meaning our regular entrees are a meat and a couple veggie sides. We also do low carb, mainly because it's just easier to limit calorie intake that way. Most of the dinner work is usually cutting and preparing vegetables. When we cut meat, it cuts the main portion of the entree, which can some…

> We don't like buying processed foods, and soups without meat are nearly a no-go for me. But hey, I'm limiting consumption so I guess I'm doing my part. I lean toward the carnivore spectrum but there are a couple meatless soups that I enjoy: * New England clam chowder * Corn chowder * Barley mushroom (though it’s even better with meat) * Gazpacho And while I’d never order it if given the option for a “real one”, veg…

[deleted]

Re: Eat less meat: UN climate change report calls for change to human diet

#504

Post by chrisco255 »

perfunctory wrote: post #166
chrisco255 wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By pets what do you mean? Is it ethical for me to have a cat, when cats are obligate carnivores that not only have to eat meat but also independently kill billions of birds a year? Is it not okay for me to eat a chicken but it's perfectly ok to own a python or boa and feed it live mice? Cows are not killing the planet. They are one of the few things you can raise that doesn't require pesticides or chemical fertilizer…

> Cows are not killing the planet. They are one of the few things you can raise that doesn't require pesticides or chemical fertilizers. True in theory. Not in practice. Unfortunately most beef we eat doesn't come from grass fed animals. And if we were to convert the entire industry to grassing only, we wouldn't have enough land to produce the same quantity of meat. Which would imply exactly reduced meat consumption.

Yes it does. Beef cows spend the majority of their lives in pasture. Very little of it is spent on a feed yard. It's not even always profitable to send a beef cow to a feed yard for finishing so it's not always done. Even there, most of their diet is a mix of hay and grain. Think of it, grass is free while grain must be paid for, so it doesn't even make economic sense. The manure collected and composted at feed yards serve as fertilizer for crops. And no, we don't eat enough meat. We are eating way too many carbs and artificial foods that are destroying our health. Meat is one of the healthiest things you can eat.

Re: Eat less meat: UN climate change report calls for change to human diet

#505

Post by briandear »

mklarmann wrote: post #442
efiecho wrote: post #438

It's funny how HN is an echo chamber sometimes. Every time I'm reading a thread like this, it's flooded with post from people who have turned vegans or almost reduced meat to zero, and one could think that this is the norm. Like a few years back when HN was going on about how the whole world would now stop eating regular food, and consume some powder mixed with water, I think it was called Soylent or something. That…

This topic has gained substantial scientific evidence. More people have come to turns that the facts only point to possible solutions for the climate were we substantially eat less meat. Having you eat even more meat makes you indirectly responsible for people’s death. It might not be right. But in the near future (2-3 years) you might feel ashamed of what you said right now.

Just being alive makes us indirectly responsible for people’s deaths. We could go down that philosophical rabbit hole a long way. People aren’t dying because I ate a steak. That sort of hyperbole isn’t helpful.

Re: Eat less meat: UN climate change report calls for change to human diet

#506

Post by marci »

departure wrote: post #351
markstos wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even weight lifting is changing, with one of the top weight lifters being vegan: https://www.greatveganathletes.com/patrik-baboumian-vegan-st... Dairy in particular can be source of inflammation. One of the benefits of the vegan diets for athletes cited is a fast recovery time after workouts.

> with one of the top weight lifters being vegan That's not exactly true, he's just some buff guy that is strong. He doesn't even look big compared to bodybuilders, regular protein eaters at the gym are his same size. His 'record' deadlift was 360kg, worlds strongest men all pulled 420kg+ this year. Arnold was in that class back in the 70's. EDIT: After some research people are saying his european world records were…

>> with one of the top weight lifters being vegan

> That's not exactly true, he's just some buff guy that is strong. He doesn't even look big compared to bodybuilders, regular protein eaters at the gym are his same size.

So, because he's a strong buff guy, while "not looking big compared to bodybuilders" (category in which he has not been competing since 1999), and as "regular protein eaters at the gym are his same size", it's not "exactly true" that he's one of the top weight lifters ?

> His 'record' deadlift was 360kg

GP never said "top deadlifter". None of his records are about deadlift. Not sure why you mentioned it.

> EDIT: After some research people are saying his european world records were all accomplished before he became vegan in 2011.

2012 Doesn't count?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrik_Baboumian

Re: Eat less meat: UN climate change report calls for change to human diet

#507

Post by 0xffff2 »

ihattendorf wrote: post #476
koolba wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We don't like buying processed foods, and soups without meat are nearly a no-go for me. But hey, I'm limiting consumption so I guess I'm doing my part. I lean toward the carnivore spectrum but there are a couple meatless soups that I enjoy: * New England clam chowder * Corn chowder * Barley mushroom (though it’s even better with meat) * Gazpacho And while I’d never order it if given the option for a “real one”, veg…

> New England clam chowder Are clams not considered meat? Also any good New England Clam Chowder has bacon in it.

This is a weird cultural thing that I encounter every now and then. Some cultures only consider flesh from land animals to be "meat". People from these cultures also often call the diet I would call "pescatarian" "vegetarian".

Re: Eat less meat: UN climate change report calls for change to human diet

#508

Post by acd »

For a New Years resolution to reduce the carbon footprint I came up with three things to reduce my co2 footprint.

1) reduce meat consumption especially from cows 2) use public transportation whenever available instead of a car. 3) consume less new stuff

Re: Eat less meat: UN climate change report calls for change to human diet

#509

Post by evjim »

frankbreetz wrote: post #452
cronix wrote: post #420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What will happen to veggie prices when we go to a $15 min wage? Do other farms not benefit from illegal labor?

It takes considerably less labor to farm vegetables than to farm vegetables and feed those vegetables to animals and also take care of those animals. So vegetable prices may go up, but considerably less so when compared to meat.

Animals don't eat vegetables. They eat hay and grains that can be dry land farmed on undesirable land with minimal labor.

Re: Eat less meat: UN climate change report calls for change to human diet

#510

Post by noetic_techy »

martius wrote: post #395
Will_Parker wrote: post #363

From https://skepticalscience.com/animal-agriculture-meat-global-... "Animal agriculture is responsible for 13–18% of human-caused greenhouse gas emissions globally, and less in developed countries (e.g. 3% in the USA). Fossil fuel combustion for energy and transportation is responsible for approximately 64% of human-caused greenhouse gas emissions globally, and more in developed countries (e.g. 80% in the USA)." I t…

Eating less meat is not veganism. It's not even vegetarianism. It's not the first time that I'm seeing reactions about this report to focus on veganism. I don't understand where it comes from: the word "vegan" is absent from the article and the IPCC report doesn't recommend a any diet. I understand debate about this report and the impact of agriculture and breeding, but I don't understand why the debate is centered a…

If you trace the origin of most of these low meat consumption pushes, its often vegan groups with an agenda trying to get the governments ear. Problem is, the recommendations and studies they site don't stand up to real scrutiny. For example they often say you should not exceed the RDA for meat consumption, without realizing that an RDA is the bare minimum to not be nutrient deficient. It is by no means the optimal level of protein consumption and likely a detrimental recommendations for the vast majority. When called out on it, they will pull the GHG card, but at 3% of US GHG emission even that doesn't stand up to scrutiny. Then they pull the morality card, without realized that row crop harvest kill vastly more small animals per harvest. Its all rooted in bias, plane and simple. The most vocal are the vegans and they make a convincing surface argument.
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