Eat less meat: UN climate change report calls for change to human diet • Hacker News Board

Re: Eat less meat: UN climate change report calls for change to human diet

#331

Post by saiya-jin » Fri, Aug 09, 2019, 2:19 PM UTC

TheBeardKing wrote: post #304

mark_l_watson wrote: post #236

At least in the USA, this could in principle be fixed by ending the corporate welfare state. Old news, but All major industries like the beef industry get huge tax breaks, free water and other giveaways at the general taxpayer’s expense. Fixing the corruption (both democratic and republican parties) in our our political would end up helping the environment a lot. That said, we have zero chance of fixing our corrupt p…

We've been trying to cut our meat consumption, but the cooking complexity is exactly my issue. We're lazy but healthy eaters, meaning our regular entrees are a meat and a couple veggie sides. We also do low carb, mainly because it's just easier to limit calorie intake that way. Most of the dinner work is usually cutting and preparing vegetables. When we cut meat, it cuts the main portion of the entree, which can some…

> soups without meat are nearly a no-go for me

This way you are missing maybe 90% of the soups of the world. Maybe try some exotic spices - I used to hate tomato soup from our school canteen with passion, but once I tried a properly spiced variant in Nepali Himalayas, things were never the same again (for the better) and I love it these days (I mean the Nepali version)

Re: Eat less meat: UN climate change report calls for change to human diet

#332

Post by uxcolumbo » Fri, Aug 09, 2019, 2:19 PM UTC

TheBeardKing wrote: post #312

the_gastropod wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely! I think you hit the nail on the head. I went to an Israeli restaurant the other day, and (I'm guessing?) all the meat was kosher (read: expensive). Their menu prices seemed to be exactly how they should be. Vegetarian options were in the ~$7 range, and meat dishes were in the $35 range. This kind of pricing still makes meat dishes accessible to anyone that wants them, but gently nudges behavior in a more…

I hate when I go to Qdoba and the same bowl with Impossible meat is $9.99, while beef or chicken is $7.99. So now I have to pay more and eat less healthy?

Can you point me to some sources that say plant=based meat is less healthy than animal based meat?

Re: Eat less meat: UN climate change report calls for change to human diet

#333

Post by markstos » Fri, Aug 09, 2019, 2:20 PM UTC

Japhy_Ryder wrote: post #205

sschueller wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if you don't want to wait for the government to require this you can already start today. Buy only locally farmed organic meat. Don't go to fast food places or restaurants that don't specifically declare that their meat is organic and local.

> Buy only locally farmed organic meat. No. Don't buy meat. Buy beans. Buy tofu. Hell, buy Beyond Burgers. We don't need meat. It's bad for the planet, bad for your health and it goes without saying, bad for the animals.

Agreed.

Re: Eat less meat: UN climate change report calls for change to human diet

#334

Post by barry-cotter » Fri, Aug 09, 2019, 2:22 PM UTC

sanxiyn wrote: post #108

ensiferum wrote: post #80

The real culprit is the uncontrolled population growth but nobody wants to talk about that. Ok, let's assume that people do indeed eat too much meat and that we halve our current consumption. Population grows until it has doubled and the meat consumption is then back to the same level as to what it is now. Eventually we can all be eating grass and rocks and there'd still be too much demand on nature crated by the exi…

> Ok, let's assume that people do indeed eat too much meat and that we halve our current consumption. Population grows until it has doubled and the meat consumption is then back to the same level as to what it is now. This is a very strange assumption as UN Population Division predicts peak population at 12B, that is, the current world population will never double. That is business as usual without any intervention.…

The UN Population Division have underestimated population growth for decades and base their projections on the assumption that fertility will converge on a steady state. This is evolotuniariliy illiterate. People who have more children will have children who have more children.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S109051381...

The heritability of fertility makes world population stabilization unlikely in the foreseeable future

The forecasting of the future growth of world population is of critical importance to anticipate and address a wide range of global challenges. The United Nations produces forecasts of fertility and world population every two years. As part of these forecasts, they model fertility levels in post-demographic transition countries as tending toward a long-term mean, leading to forecasts of flat or declining population in these countries. We substitute this assumption of constant long-term fertility with a dynamic model, theoretically founded in evolutionary biology, with heritable fertility. Rather than stabilizing around a long-term level for post-demographic transition countries, fertility tends to increase as children from larger families represent a larger share of the population and partly share their parents' trait of having more offspring. Our results suggest that world population will grow larger in the future than currently anticipated.

Re: Eat less meat: UN climate change report calls for change to human diet

#335

Post by saiya-jin » Fri, Aug 09, 2019, 2:22 PM UTC

vorpalhex wrote: post #277

nullreference00 wrote: post #257

produce less meat Eating less meat just means more waste. We need to stop talking about climate change as a problem individuals can solve with ecological lifestyle choices. We need international economic planning and the seizure of carbon extracting industry.

> the seizure of carbon extracting industry It sounds like what you mean is that you want some government or government like entity to take down big beef/pork/chicken. What the actual version of that would be is some government-esque entity taking over a bunch of farms and murdering their cows/pigs/chickens and forcibly unemploying large groups of people. Alternatively that might mean some government-esque entity inv…

What about good old taxation? Tax biological meat by the amount it pollutes (so I guess beef would be the highest), subsidy (ideally with those taxed money) artificially grown one / invest into research of it if we're not there yet

Re: Eat less meat: UN climate change report calls for change to human diet

#336

Post by markstos » Fri, Aug 09, 2019, 2:23 PM UTC

chrisco255 wrote: post #149

the8472 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

for the first two questions refer to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feed_conversion_ratio > There are, as far as I know, regions where the soil is only capable of growing pasture, hard to plant trees in. I assume that those areas would not be sufficient to cover current meat and dairy demands. If they were there wouldn't be any deforestation or soy fields for animal feed. And non-grazed grasslands is still going to re…

More than 90% of a beef cow's body weight comes from pasture land grass and hay. When's the last time the Midwestern plains area of the United States was forest? Before the beef industry, 50-100 million bison roamed the plains. It turns out that ruminants like bison and cows are essential components of a grassland ecosystem.

But killing them for food is not.

Re: Eat less meat: UN climate change report calls for change to human diet

#337

Post by markstos » Fri, Aug 09, 2019, 2:26 PM UTC

pikma wrote: post #4

I'm doubtful that much change can come from personal choices made by consumers. It seems to me that it would require tremendous energy and commitment from a very large number of people to significantly reduce the global demand. It seems to me that it's much more effective to raise the price or to reduce the supply (something like quotas or cap-and-trade). Can anyone point me to examples where my thinking is wrong, wh…

Dairy consumption has been on the decline for years in the US as plant-based alternatives on the rise.

The restaurant industry reports that profits are up for restaurants serving plant-based meat options, so more restaurants are trying it.

Every meal is a vote.

Re: Eat less meat: UN climate change report calls for change to human diet

#338

Post by corodra » Fri, Aug 09, 2019, 2:26 PM UTC

nkozyra wrote: post #313

corodra wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But most people don't see a general ethical issue with eating meat. We are omnivores after all. Hell, our hunter gatherer ancestors ate more meat than we do. Though, higher quality. It's the same with seeing a wolf eat a deer. Think they care? Same with a chimp finally catching a monkey and eating it (now those are horrifying videos to see, especially since chimps love eating monkeys). Snake to a mouse. Fox to a hare…

> But most people don't see a general ethical issue with eating meat. Again, this is in the scenario where we accept meat consumption is indisputably ethical. The way we get our meat is arguably a much bigger problem. > But if broccoli could scream would you stop eating it? Yes?

If all fruits and vegetables screamed and all animals scream, what would you eat?

If you're going to say starve to death, ha! The one thing westerners underestimate is starving and what it does to you. See how long you can go without eating. I've done a 5 day fast, with intents for a 10 day. Yes, I failed on that.

Take a wild guess what you crave the most. And it ain't plant fiber. Its muscle fiber. We live in the land of plenty that allows choices. Part of the exact problem we are running into. It's easy to say meat bad when you get fruits, veg and grain imported to you. Stuff you didn't really work to get. Because, out of personal experience, farming is hard ass work. And I dare anyone to try zero emissions large scale farming. Grab a scythe and harvest grain. Have fun with that.

What I'm getting to, it's always been a fact of life. It takes less effort to raise pigs and live off their flesh than it is to take care of a few acres of grain, veg and fruit.

What I can't stand, people not in the agriculture business or lifestyle pretending to be the ultimate authority. Grow all your own food, then you can have an opinion. Until then, don't pretend like you know what you're talking about. It's easy for anyone to wave their hand and say "everyone should live in this method because I say so".

"But if I spend all my time farming, I wont have time to do xyz"

Yea, that's the reason why our farming systems are as they are.

Re: Eat less meat: UN climate change report calls for change to human diet

#339

Post by koolba » Fri, Aug 09, 2019, 2:26 PM UTC

TheBeardKing wrote: post #304

mark_l_watson wrote: post #236

At least in the USA, this could in principle be fixed by ending the corporate welfare state. Old news, but All major industries like the beef industry get huge tax breaks, free water and other giveaways at the general taxpayer’s expense. Fixing the corruption (both democratic and republican parties) in our our political would end up helping the environment a lot. That said, we have zero chance of fixing our corrupt p…

We've been trying to cut our meat consumption, but the cooking complexity is exactly my issue. We're lazy but healthy eaters, meaning our regular entrees are a meat and a couple veggie sides. We also do low carb, mainly because it's just easier to limit calorie intake that way. Most of the dinner work is usually cutting and preparing vegetables. When we cut meat, it cuts the main portion of the entree, which can some…

> We don't like buying processed foods, and soups without meat are nearly a no-go for me. But hey, I'm limiting consumption so I guess I'm doing my part.

I lean toward the carnivore spectrum but there are a couple meatless soups that I enjoy:

* New England clam chowder

* Corn chowder

* Barley mushroom (though it’s even better with meat)

* Gazpacho

And while I’d never order it if given the option for a “real one”, vegetarian pho was surprisingly good.

Re: Eat less meat: UN climate change report calls for change to human diet

#340

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Aug 09, 2019, 2:26 PM UTC

5A704C1N wrote: post #320

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quick note: Burger King uses the Impossible Burger, not the Beyond Burger. In my opinion, the Impossible Burger isn't any better than a MorningStar Farms Grillers Prime (at significantly higher price). The Beyond Burger though is easily the best meat-free burger I've ever had. A&W and Carl's Junior are Beyond Burger joints.

You must have caught Impossible on a bad day. Prepared right, an Impossible Whopper is indistinguishable from the real thing

[deleted]