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Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

theintercept.com

501–510 of 527 posts

Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#501

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you say 'dying' are you referring to civilians or soldiers? No civilian supports killing by drone in their home town. Drone targeting is often indiscriminate and always unaccountable. Because drone kills are anonymous to anyone but the killer, it allows soldiers to act invisibly by remote control. And now we want to give that responsibility to robots? That'd be a truly terrible precedent for future warfare. Woul…

Drone targeting is often indiscriminate and always unaccountable. This is just wrong and not helpful to the discussion. Have you read (or even seen thanks to YT) anything about how "drone targeting" by US forces is actually accomplished besides media outrage when a bomb misses? Mistakes are made, but targeting is far, far from indiscriminate. And being "unaccountable" is not exclusive to drone warfare. "Would you be…

You don't need to kill dozens of bystanders to misuse drone technology or to do it unaccountably.

As I understand it, the call for a drone kill of an insurgent target is made by the JSOC ...or... by a CIA officer in Langley. In the latter, the case for discriminate sufficiency is entirely up to the CIA and its current set of political priorities for that target, which is NOT shared with the drone team or their chain of command, nor with any non-CIA entity.

I've seen no mention that the CIA is NO LONGER killing with drones (which became one of the established practices for drone use in Afghanistan about 5 years ago, IIRC). This program is very much one that Google would serve in targeting drones, which is why I mention it.

No doubt the CIA would claim their reasoning behind each kill order was discriminate. But if my description of SOP is correct and the CIA is still in charge of many drone kills, that makes them unaccountable in any practical sense.

For some background on CIA's targeting of drone strikes:

"Transferring CIA Drone Strikes to the Pentagon" https://www.cfr.org/report/transferring-cia-drone-strikes-pe...

Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#502
post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> all tech giants of that era did that with pride during WWII During WWII the US was freeing the world from oppression; now it's more seen as the oppressor. The side you're on is pretty important (as it was during WWII). This is even more true in the case of drone operations and so-called "AI" assisted actions, where operators sitting safely in air-conditioned facilities in the California desert can decide to remotel…

> The side you're on is pretty important So, generally and from what I understand about US drone operations, these strikes target people like ISIS and other Islamic extremists. Following this, in a general sense, the sides are the US and terrorist religious extremists. The way you frame your point makes it sound like your on one side or the other. If that is the case, I would much rather be on the side of the US than…

>So, generally and from what I understand about US drone operations, these strikes target people like ISIS and other Islamic extremists.

While that is the official reason/target, the question of who actually gets killed in those drone strikes is a contentious issue:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/nov/24/-sp-us-drone...

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/oct/15/90-of-peopl...

Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#503

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, your moral compass is off. The US has toppled a large number of sovereign states that were not acting violently toward other nations, and installed dictators and monarchs. The US supports Saudi Arabia, one of the most authoritarian nations on earth, who backed an actual attack on US soil, and yet they invade nations with false claims of WMD and kill hundreds of thousands. To claim that the US is the police and no…

>To claim that the US is the police and not the thugs is to completely ignore reality. Or maybe the US just had a problematic idea of what police should be doing, which explains a lot of our other problems.

The agenda is so transparent that it can't be mistaken for incompetence.

Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#504
post #485
post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is fact, not a feeling. How many of the roughly 1 million people dead in the last 15 years of the "War of Terror" ever directly attacked the US or US citizens?

ever directly attacked the US or US citizens? Why do you draw the line at "directly attacked"? We have laws that make it a crime to conspire to murder. I don't think it's unreasonable to go after people who are conspiring to attack the US or US citizens.

If they're within range of our borders, and people, sure.

Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#505
post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is nothing that will stop this. The military will find a defense contractor to do their bidding. But Google can voluntarily elect to remove themselves from this sector. Let some other company do it. Let someone else figure it out. The blood of dead innocent civilians will be on their hands. You don't see Raytheon, Boeing, or Northrop crying about it. I work at Google but opinions are my own. This is actually…

>What is "evil" about working with the military or developing weapons? Well, they kill people, see.

And why is that evil?

Are people who join the military evil? Police?

Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#506
post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is nothing that will stop this. The military will find a defense contractor to do their bidding. But Google can voluntarily elect to remove themselves from this sector. Let some other company do it. Let someone else figure it out. The blood of dead innocent civilians will be on their hands. You don't see Raytheon, Boeing, or Northrop crying about it. I work at Google but opinions are my own. This is actually…

> What is "evil" about working with the military or developing weapons? In case your question is serious: There are still some of us who believe in peace as an end-goal for us humans, as a race. See Kant's "Perpetual Peace: A Philosophical Sketch" ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_Peace:_A_Philosophic... ) for a more detailed view on the subject. "Working with the military or developing weapons" are two activ…

Definitely was serious =]

I also hope for peace but I do not believe there will be peace without our military. I suppose it's a difference of ideals but I do not see why it would be considered "evil"

Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#507
post #485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ever directly attacked the US or US citizens? Why do you draw the line at "directly attacked"? We have laws that make it a crime to conspire to murder. I don't think it's unreasonable to go after people who are conspiring to attack the US or US citizens.

If they're within range of our borders, and people, sure.

Why does the border matter? If somebody across the border is getting ready to fire a cruise middle at me, should I just let it happen?

Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#509
post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> all tech giants of that era did that with pride during WWII During WWII the US was freeing the world from oppression; now it's more seen as the oppressor. The side you're on is pretty important (as it was during WWII). This is even more true in the case of drone operations and so-called "AI" assisted actions, where operators sitting safely in air-conditioned facilities in the California desert can decide to remotel…

> The side you're on is pretty important So, generally and from what I understand about US drone operations, these strikes target people like ISIS and other Islamic extremists. Following this, in a general sense, the sides are the US and terrorist religious extremists. The way you frame your point makes it sound like your on one side or the other. If that is the case, I would much rather be on the side of the US than…

It's unlikely I can convince you of anything regarding your two questions, but... if everything is so clear-cut and right and wrong are easy to tell appart, why is this an issue with Google (trying to hide it) and Google employees (protesting / quitting)?

Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#510
post #502

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The side you're on is pretty important So, generally and from what I understand about US drone operations, these strikes target people like ISIS and other Islamic extremists. Following this, in a general sense, the sides are the US and terrorist religious extremists. The way you frame your point makes it sound like your on one side or the other. If that is the case, I would much rather be on the side of the US than…

>So, generally and from what I understand about US drone operations, these strikes target people like ISIS and other Islamic extremists. While that is the official reason/target, the question of who actually gets killed in those drone strikes is a contentious issue: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/nov/24/-sp-us-drone... https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/oct/15/90-of-peopl...

Oh I don't deny that the government royal screws up drones strikes sometimes. It is terrible that that occurs.
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