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I have no side code projects to show you

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Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#501

Post by flour_power »

warcher wrote: post #31

I’m not mad at you, but as the dude on the other side of the desk, I have to decide whether you can cut it and I’m fine saying no. I could make you do some whiteboard problems, but I think whiteboard problems are pretty far removed from your day to day development and I am uncomfortable relying on them as a proxy for your ability to ship code. I don’t really disagree with your philosophy of working while you’re worki…

I'm sure you realize that it takes 6 months for the average person to become productive at a new job. If you can't factor that in to a new hire you're probably working at a typical coding sweatshop.

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#502

Post by avremel »

JorgeGT wrote: post #453

I think no one has said it yet, but I believe the diversity you bring with your non-standard hobbies is a very valuable resource. Diversity being missed by people looking "culture fits" of workers who like the same exact things. For instance the fact that you write novels for fun suggests me you would be able to write good, long documentation or manuals if required. I've known good programmers absolutely incapable of…

That's besides the point. The poor guy just wants a life outside work.

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#503

Post by ravibhatt »

Interesting discussion here. Excellent post.

If coding is such an art and so important to the industry, why are all people at the top do not have a git hub account to show? They must still be "passionate" about coding, no? Or is it a function of how much money you have?

Facebook worked not because of some guy wrote great, highly maintainable code. It worked because of the idea. Same with others great companies.

If there were these unicorn people who did not write "unmaintainable junk" there would be no security bugs, hacks, leaks etc.

All big companies have recruited "the best" for forever. Can any one of them guarantee a bug free software. They can't. Suddenly, all these passionate people with their github account do not look sexy.

Insisting on a side project is similar to people insisting on TDD and i am sure TDD does not solve the problem of bugs in code.

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#504

Post by nathan_long »

jonas21 wrote: post #50
nathan_long wrote: post #40

Honest question: do you use open source at work? Do you contribute to open source while at work ? If not, why not? A couple days ago I spent several hours puzzling through how to use an open source library. When I figured it out, I made a PR for documentation. Our closed-source app will benefit from having its dependencies better documented. I do very little coding outside of work anymore, but I still have public con…

Many employers take the stance that they own all the code you write while at work, and therefore you don't have the right to release it under an open-source license.

Proper response: "OK, so I found a problem with one of the open source tools we use and I know how to fix it. Do you want me to 1) not fix it, in which case our code is broken, 2) put a workaround in our codebase, which you'll have to maintain forever 3) create a fork of the codebase which you'll have to maintain forever, including merging upstream changes, or else forego future bugfixes and improvements or 4) contribute the fix back to the original project on company time, which means you'll never have to pay to maintain that code?"

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#505

Post by SandwichTeeth »

indigochill wrote: post #416
eropple wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the flip side? As somebody who has plenty of open source projects--the set of employers who actually looks at them is within epsilon of zero. I have not once, not once gotten a meaningful question from anything I have posted on Github in any interview or client meeting even after suggesting up-front that it's worth taking a look. And I used to interview on a monthly basis just to keep in practice! No--instead you…

Anecdotally, as someone who has been involved in hiring and (sort of) cares about side projects, it's not actually the technical implementation I care about, that's true. It's about the applicant signalling "I care about this stuff". But it's far from the only indicator and shouldn't be given too much weight. I'd gladly hire someone who had no side projects but passed our technical test/interview and soft skills inte…

I think that coding tests and challenges apply a sort of artificial pressure and requirement to have things memorized that aren't there in the real world. I think it would be a mistake to discount a candidate who has good code on their github when they had time to sit, think through problems without being under a magnifying glass, but trips up during a technical interview challenge/puzzle/whiteboard or whatever. Maybe in those candidates you could actually walk through their projects with them and try to determine if they have a deep understanding of what they wrote. To me, that seems a better indicator of how they would perform on a team with real problems, rather than having to puke up a pseudocode merge-sort from memory.

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#506

Post by fma »

foo101 wrote: post #310
fma wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Me either. It's become cool to work 60 hours a week because you like your job, and then go home and do more programming because you like programming. Why it's cool... I don't know. I agree it helped me in the early days of my career, but at this point, as a senior developer I can pick up new technology much faster than my early days. I can come up with a working solutions much faster. I like my job, and I like progra…

I like my job, and I like programming... But there are other things I like too. Such as playing the guitar and saxophone, writing side coding projects, mountain climbing and traveling. Do you realize that writing side coding projects is just one of the many things we like to do? Just because we do side projects does not mean that we do not have a life outside of coding.

I agree with you. Everyone has their own hobbies.

But certain people believe that in order to be a good coder, one of your hobbies MUST be coding.

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#507

Post by derekp7 »

orangecat wrote: post #312
dude01 wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know someone who tried that - the company fired him, plus the company fought paying him unemployment. You gotta watch out!

They fired him for just asking? Then they're horrible, and he's better off far away from them. Most employers are not actually cartoon villains and will be reasonable.

He may be better off in the long term, but short term unexpected unemployment hurts. Can hurt long term too, since you will have to take whatever job you can get as soon as possible (unless you have enough savings). And that job you get may not be at the same point as you were in your career progression, since many employers prefer to hire someone who is already working.

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#508

Post by kemitche »

asmdev wrote: post #334
kemitche wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't expect my surgeon to do surgery in his spare time. Nor my plumber, dentist, gardener, or any other professional. I look at their past work history and reviews from customers and/or coworkers. I will never understand the belief that side projects are in any way necessary. I'd much rather have a well rounded individual who isn't moonlighting on other things but rather can bring his clear focused mind to the off…

> I'd much rather have a well rounded individual who isn't moonlighting on other things but rather can bring his clear focused mind to the office. I don't understand how you equate doing side code projects to not bringing clear focused mind to the office. Would you also much rather bring a well rounded individual who does not take art classes after work? Do you think taking arts classes after work would affect one's…

If the person enjoys their side projects, go for it. I'm not saying they can't. But on the hiring side I'm not going to require that all employees have side projects that match their day job.

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#509

Post by kemitche »

deathanatos wrote: post #280
kemitche wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't expect my surgeon to do surgery in his spare time. Nor my plumber, dentist, gardener, or any other professional. I look at their past work history and reviews from customers and/or coworkers. I will never understand the belief that side projects are in any way necessary. I'd much rather have a well rounded individual who isn't moonlighting on other things but rather can bring his clear focused mind to the off…

> I'd much rather have a well rounded individual who isn't moonlighting on other things but rather can bring his clear focused mind to the office. I don't think it's wrong to work on side project. Some people like or want to. Who am I to judge what they do on their free time? It might happen to overlap with their job, or it might not. But I agree, I don't require my surgeon to do surgery in his spare time. I've worke…

You're right, I was probably swinging too hard on the other direction with my comments. The core of my argument stands: I refuse to require side projects as a condition for hiring someone.

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#510

Post by ratsimihah »

nanodano wrote: post #367
chrisco255 wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a software engineer who does technical interviews, I also regularly review GitHub contributions if mentioned on the resume. It's not a deal killer if someone doesn't have these things...but if you're up against another candidate who does (and their work is good)...then the other candidate is likely getting the job.

What % of candidates have side projects to show you? When I did interviews, I saw probably less than 10% have any side projects to show.

That's a surprising number. Did you interview mostly recent grads?
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