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China Blocks WhatsApp

nytimes.com

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Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#501

Post by bamboozled »

plexicle wrote: post #318
bamboozled wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems strict but maybe it's sensible from a security standpoint. Why should a foreign country like China allow foreign owned mass-surveillance systems like Google and Facebook spy on their citizens? I mean even countries in the EU are taking Facebook to court over unauthorised online tracking of citizens [1]. The only difference with China is they have the power to do something about it, which is skip the legislat…

No one is forcing them to use Google or Facebook. I sure as hell wouldn't want the US blocking Baidu or whatever. Let me decide.

I don't get your argument really, nor am I trying to say I support what the Chinese government are doing.

Given what we now know about how these companies operate track and consolidate information about users and collaborate with the US Government [1] why would a rival super power trust these companies to operate within their borders?

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM_%28surveillance_program%...

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#502

Post by auganov »

Certhas wrote: post #117
chaostheory wrote: post #40

What the long-term effects will be: China's ruling class further cement their power at the cost of China's innovation and future growth. Interesting and useful things are made when people able share and consume information. e.g. Jack Ma's US visit exposed him to Yahoo. Ma Huateng was clearly inspired by his exposure to ICQ. The list goes on. The same thing happens in the West but it happens a lot more often since the…

Alternative: Innovation happens within the context of Chinas censorship and political regime. Blocking of entrenched western competitors allows home grown solutions to spring up, and local technological know how to develop faster. Capitalism and innovation turn out to work within the context of an illiberal society just fine. Especially as China avoids the mistake of closing itself off to the rest of the world, but s…

Not an alternative at all. It's what's happening and it's no good. The benefactors are the Chinese me-too tech industry and the government. The ultimate loser is the Chinese consumer.

If China banned coca-cola and bragged about its burgeoning soft-drink industry we'd all be laughing at it.

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#503

Post by seanmcdirmid »

NicoJuicy wrote: post #500

I'm seriously wondering why we open up our markets to China, if they won't ever allow our companies to thrive there. They shouldn't be allowed to take over companies too.

Many of our companies do thrive in china, and the rich people in the USA make lots of money off the arrangement. Don't think for a second that the relationship is one sided.

Still, china could be a bit more fair and symmetrical in our trading relationship.

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#504

Post by Taek »

chaostheory wrote: post #40

What the long-term effects will be: China's ruling class further cement their power at the cost of China's innovation and future growth. Interesting and useful things are made when people able share and consume information. e.g. Jack Ma's US visit exposed him to Yahoo. Ma Huateng was clearly inspired by his exposure to ICQ. The list goes on. The same thing happens in the West but it happens a lot more often since the…

Putting citizens in the strict climate that China has created almost certainly causes a chilling effect for some ideas. But what if the ideas that it chills are ones that generally detract from the goal of China becoming a world power?

I'm not ready to rule out the idea that China has become a global power because of, and not in spite if, the way that it controls citizens.

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#505

Post by a1371 »

Sargos wrote: post #222
a1371 wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this alternative is more reasonable. Those who think China is just a copying machine, underestimate the influence the Chinese engineers had in the landscape of many industries. The hoverboards (the type with wheels) became a household product thanks to them. Conceptualization is not making something actually happen, unlike what the patent-trolls want us to believe. IoT was first proposed in the 90s, but did i…

Chinese engineers didn't make the hoverboard. If anything the hoverboard example disproves your example as they just copied the hoverboard from foreign companies. I know what you're point seems to be even though you aren't communicating it very well. I do think you're missing the fact that producing goods cheaply does not make you a leader in tech. Besides quick fads like hoverboards or fidget spinners China does not…

I doubt anybody will ever see this response, but about the Hoverboard, here it is:

Hoverboards are originally from China [1] however, most of us have likely learned about them from Kickstarter etc. I think the users of HN would agree that "invention is never a sudden thing". The process for hoverboards has been iterative, of course. I have heard claims of having commercial hoverboards as much as five years before they became household names in the US.

[1] https://youtu.be/SGJ5cZnoodY?t=33m52s

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#506

Post by jansho »

chaostheory wrote: post #40

What the long-term effects will be: China's ruling class further cement their power at the cost of China's innovation and future growth. Interesting and useful things are made when people able share and consume information. e.g. Jack Ma's US visit exposed him to Yahoo. Ma Huateng was clearly inspired by his exposure to ICQ. The list goes on. The same thing happens in the West but it happens a lot more often since the…

> The more China closes up, the less Western companies have to fear about future tech dominance or crazy innovation from China in the long run.

Not sure about this, they're pretty prolific at sending their students out to learn from others. They've also invested a lot in their universities recently.

Also maybe innovation is a bit overrated? So far China's been doing well being the "world's giant copy machine", and learning from our mistakes to see what really works.

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#507

Post by IncRnd »

davemp wrote: post #308
IncRnd wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The people who will get ahead in China in the future are the ones who are somehow able to live outside of China to experience new ideas. There are more people in China than in the United States, Europe, and Russia combined. China already manufactures your clothes, chips, computers, phones, and missile chips. I don't think it's correct, given the world's dependence on China, to say China is somehow behind the times…

manufacturing =/= innovation

Who do you think writes all the software for those manufacturing facilities? Yahoo?

Who has launched satellites into orbit to test quantum communications? Uber?

Don't get caught up in association fallacies about who is able to innovate. A quarter of the world lives in China.

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#508

Post by mk89 »

Certhas wrote: post #117
chaostheory wrote: post #40

What the long-term effects will be: China's ruling class further cement their power at the cost of China's innovation and future growth. Interesting and useful things are made when people able share and consume information. e.g. Jack Ma's US visit exposed him to Yahoo. Ma Huateng was clearly inspired by his exposure to ICQ. The list goes on. The same thing happens in the West but it happens a lot more often since the…

Alternative: Innovation happens within the context of Chinas censorship and political regime. Blocking of entrenched western competitors allows home grown solutions to spring up, and local technological know how to develop faster. Capitalism and innovation turn out to work within the context of an illiberal society just fine. Especially as China avoids the mistake of closing itself off to the rest of the world, but s…

China’s strategy, despite all our western arrogance, is paying off.

It’s of course not nice to read such things, but who cares in the end. If you go to China, you’ll use Something else.

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#509

Post by e12e »

Joking_Phantom wrote: post #405
e12e wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've heard of this enemy of the state called "Snowden", right? 5 eyes? The US coalition dropping helpline missiles based on cellphone meta data (obtained from private corporations)? Or simply border control agents asking for social media credentials, partly based on knowing you have an account? I'm not saying I would enjoy being spied on by the Chinese government in particular... But it's not as if the "Western Int…

I won't comment on Snowden since there are significant efforts to continue his cause, and his whistleblowing is one part of a backlash against the overreach of US government surveillance. The cellphone meta data issue is complicated by the fact that the telecommunications infrastructure of the US is not private and only recently regulated. New industries with antiquated interpretations of law are bound to be abused b…

> But social media information have no expectation of privacy, and again access to accounts and devices can always be denied.

So fb messenger has no expectation of privacy, but wechat does?

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#510

Post by bigbugbag »

davemp wrote: post #308
IncRnd wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The people who will get ahead in China in the future are the ones who are somehow able to live outside of China to experience new ideas. There are more people in China than in the United States, Europe, and Russia combined. China already manufactures your clothes, chips, computers, phones, and missile chips. I don't think it's correct, given the world's dependence on China, to say China is somehow behind the times…

manufacturing =/= innovation

Please elaborate on this, as history tells a different story.
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