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Moving Forward on Basic Income

blog.ycombinator.com

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Re: Moving Forward on Basic Income

#501

Post by nwah1 »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #397

I'm really, really happy you're going forward with this! That said, I have just one question to this experiment - how it's going to handle media exposure? What I worry about is that the interaction with the greater world through mass media will blow the entire thing up and make it useless. I expect at least: - prices going up for rent and some stuff in areas where owners know population is on BI - people getting incr…

This. So much this. Very few people seem to understand that rent is based on what the location gives you access to. Thus, most well-intentioned schemes to help the poor end up not working.

It is possible to avoid these traps, but only by first understanding how rents are set.

Re: Moving Forward on Basic Income

#502

Post by intopieces »

ncallaway wrote: post #343
xienze wrote: post #60

So, a question for the BI fans: I've seen it said repeatedly that BI will save us money (or at least, not be so outrageously expensive) in part because we can eliminate existing welfare programs. "Just cut a single check, no more overhead from several agencies", they say. But riddle me this: what do you do when someone on BI has a financial emergency or, as will happen with some regularity, just flat-out blows all th…

If you're having problems feeding yourself, I would like to see an opt-in program where you can receive food, in exchange for $X out of your BI. If you're having problems housing yourself, an opt-in program for housing in exchange for $Y out of your BI.

This already exists in the form of supermarkets and the housing market. No need to re-invent the wheel here.

Re: Moving Forward on Basic Income

#504

Post by morgante »

simplify wrote: post #156

Has anyone considered "subsidizing jobs" as an alternative to BI? Would it work better if the government gives $X to a company when they hire someone?

Why should incentivizing the creation of economically unfeasible and unnecessary jobs be a goal?

Such a system would be a huge mess of misaligned incentives.

Re: Moving Forward on Basic Income

#506

Post by hockley »

xienze wrote: post #60

So, a question for the BI fans: I've seen it said repeatedly that BI will save us money (or at least, not be so outrageously expensive) in part because we can eliminate existing welfare programs. "Just cut a single check, no more overhead from several agencies", they say. But riddle me this: what do you do when someone on BI has a financial emergency or, as will happen with some regularity, just flat-out blows all th…

I think tough shit works for everything but healthcare. When even the private solution (health insurnce) is essentially needs based, it's pretty hard to escape some kind of policy-driven rationing.

Re: Moving Forward on Basic Income

#507

Post by dghughes »

xienze wrote: post #60

So, a question for the BI fans: I've seen it said repeatedly that BI will save us money (or at least, not be so outrageously expensive) in part because we can eliminate existing welfare programs. "Just cut a single check, no more overhead from several agencies", they say. But riddle me this: what do you do when someone on BI has a financial emergency or, as will happen with some regularity, just flat-out blows all th…

The way I see basic income (BI) is like when you get money back after doing your taxes only with a BI you get it up front and more of it.

It's not meant to be your only source of income but I can see how some people would chose to use it as such. At first it would be confusing since any social programs currently in place such as welfare, unemployment insurance would be phased out.

The current government of Canada is proposing to implement or at least look at a basic income.

https://www.liberal.ca/policy-resolutions/100-priority-resol...

Re: Moving Forward on Basic Income

#508

Post by dragonwriter »

treehau5 wrote: post #479

Why is the underlying assumption always "as technology continues to replace jobs and generate massive wealth" in the world of BI? It seems like BI is an answer to a false dichotomy. What if we fix our society instead? What if instead of massive seeking of profiteering we actually double down on our efforts to improve lives today , right now in this very moment instead of some far distant realization of "when all jobs…

> It seems like BI is an answer to a false dichotomy.

[...]

> What if we fix our society instead? What if instead of massive seeking of profiteering we actually double down on our efforts to improve lives today, right now in this very moment

BI is usually presented as a right now improvement, that also gives more improvement as technology advances. So, the false dichotomy I see is yours: between "improvement right now" and "improvement as technology and productivity improve".

Re: Moving Forward on Basic Income

#509

Post by greedo »

dragonwriter wrote: post #494
greedo wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"newly issued fiat currency" is theft. Forced inflation is theft from people with savings etc etc etc.

I accept that some people have this broad of a concept of "theft", and I have no problem (so long as it is clear what is meant) with using the word this way, however, once it is broadened this far, I fail to see any necessary connections with the moral implications of more typical definitions of "theft".

Normally I would say that printing more fiat currency isn't theft since it's usually done in a lawful manner. And since theft is by definition unlawful taking, then that wouldn't qualify. But inflating the money supply by 2-3 trillion dollars would be a generational transfer of money like we've never witnessed in the US.

Re: Moving Forward on Basic Income

#510

Post by DominikR »

jackpirate wrote: post #211
DawkinsGawd wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You completely side stepped the question. I find it absolutely amazing how naive BI supporters are. I grew up poor in a ghetto in New York. Studied, went to university, became an engineer and am no longer in that socioeconomic bracket. However it is very apparent that the people in my current bracket (the one's that support BI), have no idea about the issues of the poor. Poor people are mostly poor because of the dec…

> ... mental illness ... This is hardly a "decision somebody made".

Some widely used illegal drugs are known to cause mental illnesses for some. MDMA, magic mushrooms and LSD just to name a few.

I've always been curious about hallucinogen effects but I chose to never try it because of the risks.

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