I would have hired Doug, but... • Hacker News Board

Re: I would have hired Doug, but...

#51

Post by lisper » Wed, May 06, 2015, 6:53 PM UTC

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #39

blisterpeanuts wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Me 3! 56, first prog job was in '87. Now I'm steadily employed in a dream job, working from home, writing mobile apps and exploring new "IoT" technologies. If this job ends, which all jobs do sooner or later, I'm hoping to starting my own company, finally, and ride that into retirement. But life continues to be an adventure and you never know what lies around the next bend in the road!!! Best of luck to you and to pe…

Let's make it an even 4! Just turned 50 yesterday. Wrote my first contract program in 1982 when I was 17. Today I teach teams how to rock-and-roll. I also keep coding, but mostly as a hobby. It has nothing to do with programming -- I simply have too many irons in the fire to do all of the things I love as much as I want to.

I guess I might as well pile on. Turned 50 last year. Got my first paycheck for writing code junior year of high school (writing BASIC code on a Commodore PET!) Working on my fifth startup now.

Re: I would have hired Doug, but...

#52

Post by equalarrow » Wed, May 06, 2015, 6:54 PM UTC

ilaksh wrote: post #38

Is this the old people thread? I'm 37. I think ageism is a very real problem and I hope people will consider doing more suing even if they don't have to. Some people need to be sued. We need some class actions. Right from the top down of Silicon Valley ageism is rampant and in your face. For example, Sam Altman has publicly made explicitly agist remarks. You kids may not think its a big deal now but give it ten years…

"Of course in 10-15 years everyone will be in the same boat, being completely ignored by the ASIs"

Exactly, so why give them any credence now?? You only give these people power if you do. That's great that's what Sam Altman thinks; he's "young", but ya know, when he's 50, then what? He'll probably say "oh, that's obviously not how I see things now". Or Zuck. He's ancient to a 19yr old and the only reason he doesn't care about this is because he's rich and runs Facebook.

I'm older than you and have been through enough startups and honestly I've dealt with ageism enough to the point that it doesn't even phase me anymore - I've moved past it. But this is because I've made it that way. If people don't want to work with me, np, there are plenty of other opportunities out there.

Sure, you might not get hired at the hot startup you just interviewed at. But honestly, if that's the case, who cares? Make your own way, your own rules and then you can decide to hire young or older people or not.

Re: I would have hired Doug, but...

#53

Post by [deleted] » Wed, May 06, 2015, 6:59 PM UTC

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #39

blisterpeanuts wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Me 3! 56, first prog job was in '87. Now I'm steadily employed in a dream job, working from home, writing mobile apps and exploring new "IoT" technologies. If this job ends, which all jobs do sooner or later, I'm hoping to starting my own company, finally, and ride that into retirement. But life continues to be an adventure and you never know what lies around the next bend in the road!!! Best of luck to you and to pe…

Let's make it an even 4! Just turned 50 yesterday. Wrote my first contract program in 1982 when I was 17. Today I teach teams how to rock-and-roll. I also keep coding, but mostly as a hobby. It has nothing to do with programming -- I simply have too many irons in the fire to do all of the things I love as much as I want to.

[deleted]

Re: I would have hired Doug, but...

#54

Post by codeonfire » Wed, May 06, 2015, 6:59 PM UTC

Part of the problem, at least in America is one that people don't want to talk about. The industry has globalized greatly over the last couple decades, and many companies hire in areas that have no labor standards. Companies are operating under US labor standards but are hiring people in greater numbers in China and India, some to work in the US. In those places discrimination by age is commonplace. Additionally, there are a large number of foreign managers working in the US who don't understand why they can't just openly discriminate by whatever standard they want. and it makes sense they are confused if you're allowed to discriminate in some cases but not others at the same company. No one regulates US based corporations hiring people in overseas markets for US jobs. The problem is so bad that many resumes that US managers in US companies have sitting on their desk contain things like age, birthplace, country of origin, family members, and even blood type. It blatantly violates US law.

Re: I would have hired Doug, but...

#55

Post by kbenson » Wed, May 06, 2015, 7:00 PM UTC

michaelangerman wrote: post #19

I am 55 and have been programming computers since 1975 when I was 15 years old. Do the math, I have been programming now for 40 years. Recently, I had a conversation with someone else about this topic and I told them that I have never been so excited about my career, the field of computer science, and most importantly the opportunities that exist today in the field of technology. The excitement surrounding too many t…

I'm only 35, but it's obvious there's a lot of work to do to "master" a particular language, or at least paradigm. At the point where you feel you've mastered something, or you've reached the point of diminishing returns? Move to a slightly different paradigm, re-apply your accrued knowledge, learn new things, and grow more.

Yes, the field can be insular, yes, there's benefit from cross-pollination from other disciplines, but the field is vast, and it's reach is still expanding. There are plenty of people immigrating and emigrating from CS that are sharing ideas, you don't have to be one if you don't want to be. If you're happy with what you do, and you can make a living doing it, enjoy it. It's privilege, not a curse.

Re: I would have hired Doug, but...

#56

Post by andrewem » Wed, May 06, 2015, 7:02 PM UTC

michaelangerman wrote: post #19

I am 55 and have been programming computers since 1975 when I was 15 years old. Do the math, I have been programming now for 40 years. Recently, I had a conversation with someone else about this topic and I told them that I have never been so excited about my career, the field of computer science, and most importantly the opportunities that exist today in the field of technology. The excitement surrounding too many t…

My dad just retired from a programming job at 66 years old, and now he's back down to one job, doing programming at his own business for clients like big manufacturing companies. One of his complaints before his retirement is that some of the younger people, including some in their 50s, weren't willing to try new things or follow state of the art practices.

Re: I would have hired Doug, but...

#57

Post by wedowhatwedo » Wed, May 06, 2015, 7:03 PM UTC

tomjen3 wrote: post #49

ams6110 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me, the thing that gets a bit discouraging at times is the feeling of riding a slow-motion merry-go-round. Every 10 years or so you see the same ideas start to come around again, only with some new paint and landscaping. I have found myself more than once thinking that learning about some new trendy buzzword is just ultimately a waste of time, since I will barely have mastered it before it's been replaced by the…

As a young person my biggest concern with hiring old people is that exact attitude: this is just like $IRRELEVANT_OLD_TECH. Yeah on the surface. $IRRELEVANT_OLD_TECH didn't catch on or it wouldn't be irrelevant but _why_ didn't it catch on? Powerbuilder failed, but was it because you couldn't write a good enough program that way on 1995s hardware? Or because it was ultimately a stupid idea? Somebody like me who has n…

Powerbuilder failed? I made a ton of money programming with Powerbuilder back in the 90's. How is that a failure?

Some day a person younger than you will say "this is just like Javascript that failed back in the day".

Re: I would have hired Doug, but...

#58

Post by mpdehaan2 » Wed, May 06, 2015, 7:08 PM UTC

logicallee wrote: post #25

intrasight wrote: post #6

When I was a young man, a slightly older associate told me that "programming is a trap". What he meant is that if you are relatively smart, you can get a CS degree, get good at it, and go earn a fantastic income right out of school. I heard the words. I understood the words. I agreed with the words. Even now, 30 years later, I keep asking "is this a trap that I choose to remain in?" I still love programming, but it i…

the fuck! This is like someone telling you your fiancée is a trap, because she is amazing and perfect for you, you have everything in common and you will end up happy and together forever . like a black hole of perfect happiness - you'd better turn away before you're past the event horizon. Odd advice to say the least. :)

I believe he implied the income was great, not that you would continue to enjoy the work, so it was hard to pivot into less-technical fields even if you wanted to.

I like software, but for instance, I really couldn't make the same as a photographer (plus, I don't want to shoot weddings or people or stock photos and stuff...).

However there are some great examples of stock traders becoming potters and things like that, so it CAN be done, you just have to change what things you are addicted to - or earn a bunch first :)

Re: I would have hired Doug, but...

#59

Post by ebbv » Wed, May 06, 2015, 7:09 PM UTC

mtrimpe wrote: post #42

ebbv wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm 30 now (from time to time I feel that I've already lived enough and am mostly done) This is the most absurd sentence I've read in weeks. Wow, man. Talk to some people a bit older than you, maybe, and realize that you haven't done anything.

Yeah; totally! You're only 30 and already happy with your life!? That's way too fast dude! You really need to feel incomplete and unsatisfied for at least a decade or two more! /s

He didn't say he was happy with his life. If that's all he said it wouldn't be ridiculous, obviously.

Re: I would have hired Doug, but...

#60

Post by nickpp » Wed, May 06, 2015, 7:10 PM UTC

"The processes I use, investing in good tools and underpinnings, and paying attention to good features of other people's software, makes it easy and quick to try out new ideas. Some of them are really worth it."

What processes is he using? What tools and underpinnings that allow him to quickly try out new ideas?