France wants companies to make appliances that last longer • Hacker News Board

Re: France wants companies to make appliances that last longer

#51

Post by joshvm » Tue, Mar 03, 2015, 2:57 PM UTC

eru wrote: post #22

bobbles wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would be great if they standardised on 'price per year of use' like they do now in australia where food always has to have the $/100g or $/100ml in addition to the unit price. (Many supermarkets were basically rorting people by charging more for the 'bulk' items but labelling them as best value)

In Britain they also have some unit-price law. But Tesco blatantly abuses it: eg one kind of apple is priced by piece, the next goes per 100g (or per 1kg, but converting between 100g and 1kg is simpler).

I believe that's because you have situations where you're buying multiple items that have variable weights, but a fixed total price. For instance, a bag of apples will not be exactly 200g, it might be 205g or 195g. However, you know it will have 4 apples in it so you're paying per apple. If you buy apples loosely then you can pick the weight and pay accordingly.

You can see the same for the fixed price chickens vs the organic/free-range that are priced by weight.

Although Tesco will no doubt try to game the system, it is in their interest to show you understandable unit prices because they want to flog their stuff cheaper than the brands.

Re: France wants companies to make appliances that last longer

#52

Post by thaumasiotes » Tue, Mar 03, 2015, 3:08 PM UTC

eru wrote: post #22

bobbles wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would be great if they standardised on 'price per year of use' like they do now in australia where food always has to have the $/100g or $/100ml in addition to the unit price. (Many supermarkets were basically rorting people by charging more for the 'bulk' items but labelling them as best value)

In Britain they also have some unit-price law. But Tesco blatantly abuses it: eg one kind of apple is priced by piece, the next goes per 100g (or per 1kg, but converting between 100g and 1kg is simpler).

In Shanghai there's a brand of milk, Ubest, that comes in 500 mL, 950 mL, and 1350 mL containers. The best price per mL is always the 950 mL size. This always bugs me -- what's the point of buying larger sizes if it's not cheaper?

Re: France wants companies to make appliances that last longer

#53

Post by bhayden » Tue, Mar 03, 2015, 5:59 PM UTC

yitchelle wrote: post #47

NeutronBoy wrote: post #9

In Australia, while manufacturers don't have to label their products with the expected lifespan, under consumer law they are obliged to honor warranties for the 'reasonable life span' of a given product. This mean that if your $1k iPhone or $3k television break outside their warranty period but still inside what a reasonable person expect it to work (say 3, maybe 4 years for an undamaged iPhone, or 5-6 years for a br…

Interesting that this is left open ended like this. The term "reasonable" means different things to different people. What is the point of having a defined warranty period?

I assume the point is not having to sue to fix your iPhone.

Re: France wants companies to make appliances that last longer

#54

Post by draven » Tue, Mar 03, 2015, 9:46 PM UTC

kagamine wrote: post #41

draven wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And go back to what has been the norm in the 50s. I have a few books from my grand father, by Eugène Aisberg: "La radio, mais c'est très simple", and the equivalent one for analog televisions. They explain the basic working principles of (analog, tube-based) radios ans TVs and how to repair them. The hardware was simpler and easier to fix back then.

And cars. Let's not forget about fault finding a car requires a considerable investment in diagnostics gear.

Motorcycles still win in that department, even if modern sportbikes are getting more and more electronic helpers.

Re: France wants companies to make appliances that last longer

#55

Post by aaronchall » Wed, Mar 04, 2015, 2:28 AM UTC

Personally, I like to buy assembled goods on sale from a manufacturer with a decent reputation, and then I DIY replace parts from the cheapest supplier I can find, since I'm typically out of warranty already anyways. I'll replace my laptop fan as soon as my cheap thermal grease comes in. After that, if I feel good about it, I'll upgrade the memory and hope to get another few years out of it.

I liked the idea of telling consumers the expected life of a product. But they're actually not doing that. Instead, they're going to threaten people with jail time and companies with huge fines. https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&pr...

But when you're making a product, you plan its construction around its life-expectancy. You don't make a doohicky with a sprocket that lasts 30 years when the other parts of the doohicky will only last 3 years. Instead, you get the sprocket made more cheaply with a life expectancy of 3 years, and your savings helps you compete with other doohicky manufacturers for the business of consumers.

It seems to me that France doesn't understand the economics of manufacturing. This seems to be another brain-dead decision by socialists that will cost jobs and raise the risks (and thus the costs) of doing business in the country. They'll have to pay those engineers and managers who make these design decisions even more to take on those risks. Marginal manufacturers will just get out, and jobs will be lost. Like they can afford it. http://www.france24.com/en/20150127-france-unemployment-hits...

Re: France wants companies to make appliances that last longer

#56

Post by eru » Wed, Mar 04, 2015, 3:42 AM UTC

joshvm wrote: post #51

eru wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Britain they also have some unit-price law. But Tesco blatantly abuses it: eg one kind of apple is priced by piece, the next goes per 100g (or per 1kg, but converting between 100g and 1kg is simpler).

I believe that's because you have situations where you're buying multiple items that have variable weights, but a fixed total price. For instance, a bag of apples will not be exactly 200g, it might be 205g or 195g. However, you know it will have 4 apples in it so you're paying per apple. If you buy apples loosely then you can pick the weight and pay accordingly. You can see the same for the fixed price chickens vs th…

Oh, I don't mind if they would price all their apples either by unit or by kg. It's just the mix and match that's designed to confuse you.

> Although Tesco will no doubt try to game the system, it is in their interest to show you understandable unit prices because they want to flog their stuff cheaper than the brands.

I'm not sure Tesco makes more money on the cheaper stuff. People who care about price and quality go to Lidl and Aldi anyway (if available in the vicinity).

Re: France wants companies to make appliances that last longer

#57

Post by eru » Wed, Mar 04, 2015, 3:42 AM UTC

thaumasiotes wrote: post #52

eru wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Britain they also have some unit-price law. But Tesco blatantly abuses it: eg one kind of apple is priced by piece, the next goes per 100g (or per 1kg, but converting between 100g and 1kg is simpler).

In Shanghai there's a brand of milk, Ubest, that comes in 500 mL, 950 mL, and 1350 mL containers. The best price per mL is always the 950 mL size. This always bugs me -- what's the point of buying larger sizes if it's not cheaper?

Could be more convenient in the fridge?

Though I guess it's just a ploy by the retailer. Perhaps they are trying to hit certain magic price points. (Like 0.99 of local currency.)

Re: France wants companies to make appliances that last longer

#58

Post by thaumasiotes » Wed, Mar 04, 2015, 5:53 AM UTC

eru wrote: post #57

thaumasiotes wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Shanghai there's a brand of milk, Ubest, that comes in 500 mL, 950 mL, and 1350 mL containers. The best price per mL is always the 950 mL size. This always bugs me -- what's the point of buying larger sizes if it's not cheaper?

Could be more convenient in the fridge? Though I guess it's just a ploy by the retailer. Perhaps they are trying to hit certain magic price points. (Like 0.99 of local currency.)

They're definitely not going for special price points; pricing for the two larger sizes is quite odd. I think I generally pay 16.8 yuan for a 950 mL carton.

Re: France wants companies to make appliances that last longer

#59

Post by imjustsaying » Wed, Mar 04, 2015, 6:12 AM UTC

brandonmenc wrote: post #38

imjustsaying wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would be interested to see a tracking of the change of new car prices during that time. New car prices today are extraordinarily expensive, and from anecdotal experience, most consumers will only buy new cars through a loan. Surely, it wasn't always that way.

GMAC was founded in 1919 - it has always been that way.

Thanks for pointing that out, I didn't know that.

Re: France wants companies to make appliances that last longer

#60

Post by imjustsaying » Wed, Mar 04, 2015, 6:16 AM UTC

thaumasiotes wrote: post #52

eru wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Britain they also have some unit-price law. But Tesco blatantly abuses it: eg one kind of apple is priced by piece, the next goes per 100g (or per 1kg, but converting between 100g and 1kg is simpler).

In Shanghai there's a brand of milk, Ubest, that comes in 500 mL, 950 mL, and 1350 mL containers. The best price per mL is always the 950 mL size. This always bugs me -- what's the point of buying larger sizes if it's not cheaper?

People may have become accustomed to assume that the larger product is a better deal, so perhaps this is a way to achieve the higher profit margin of the two options through understanding consumer behavior.

Note that this most likely not Ubest's pricing decision, but the convenience store or grocer retailer that sells the product to the end consumer.