In the Netherlands we have a warranty system that works a bit like this. Basically you have a warranty on your stuff as long as it's expected lifetime. So for instance you claim your warranty on a dishwasher for at least 5 years and on your MacBook you will probably get it for at least 3 years (of course you can't claim such a long lifespan on your battery).
France wants companies to make appliances that last longer
31–40 of 63 posts
Re: France wants companies to make appliances that last longer
#32I doubt planned obsolescence is common. Think about the reaction of the consumer to something breaking down. Do they go "that was a great product, pity it broke, better buy the new version" or do they say "that was a shit product, I'm getting a different brand". And what about people figuring out which products break early from Amazon reviews? I think this law is probably heavy handed and unnecessary. Especially in a…
I doubt you know what you're talking about.
Re: France wants companies to make appliances that last longer
#33I doubt planned obsolescence is common. Think about the reaction of the consumer to something breaking down. Do they go "that was a great product, pity it broke, better buy the new version" or do they say "that was a shit product, I'm getting a different brand". And what about people figuring out which products break early from Amazon reviews? I think this law is probably heavy handed and unnecessary. Especially in a…
It's a feedback loop. The price wars made manufacturers cut every corner they could and now we have frail products. It's also a byproduct of fast evolving times. We want to try the new shiny, so every year, drop the older to buy the latest which is convenient for brands to roll production (the only part the mob talks about sadly).
Re: France wants companies to make appliances that last longer
#34While on the surface this might sound good by evoking ideas of more sustainability and less and lower velocity of consumerism, we need to consider the goods in question. For example, let's take a washing machine from 20 years ago and compare the efficiency of a modern washing machine -and subtract the added manufacturing input into the new machine. Or incandescent bulbs and LED lights. Or for that matter older cars a…
You don't compare in the same dimension. Newer washing machine might be more water and energy efficient than a 20-year-old one. But why do you think this affects its durability? Are you arguing that Samsung can't build efficient washing machines that are also durable?
Re: France wants companies to make appliances that last longer
#35I disagree with the common belief of planned obsolescence.
In the industry the cheapest thing to make is plastic injection molding. By far. Like 50 to 100 times cheaper than the alternatives at scale.
Melting plastic at 200 Celsius is so much easier than melting metal at over 700 Celsius(over 1000 for steels) with all the contractions and problems this creates.
Any manufacturer could use metal in their products or create a plastic version at half(or 1/3) the price.
Most people just buy the cheaper alternative. Then they rant about planned obsolescence when the thing breaks soon(but over the warranty period).
But the reality is that thanks to plastic molding we get incredible cheap products, like a USD60 vacuum cleaner, when in the past it was more like today USD1000 for one when it was made with metal parts that lasted decades.
We want it all, cheaper and better. But having all is not possible(yet).
Re: France wants companies to make appliances that last longer
#36Earlier quoted context omitted.
Perhaps an issue is that people have expected that products will last beyond their warranties. The French proposal would seem to clarify the difference between a warranty and an expected lifetime, if there is indeed such a difference. My family lives in a house that was pretty much empty of appliances when we bought it, ~ 12 years ago. I'm extremely lucky to be handy at repairing things (thanks to my parents), but ap…
I think that there is a huge untapped market for selling easily repairable appliances to DIYers.
And go back to what has been the norm in the 50s. I have a few books from my grand father, by Eugène Aisberg: "La radio, mais c'est très simple", and the equivalent one for analog televisions. They explain the basic working principles of (analog, tube-based) radios ans TVs and how to repair them. The hardware was simpler and easier to fix back then.
Re: France wants companies to make appliances that last longer
#37I disagree with the common belief of planned obsolescence. In the industry the cheapest thing to make is plastic injection molding. By far. Like 50 to 100 times cheaper than the alternatives at scale. Melting plastic at 200 Celsius is so much easier than melting metal at over 700 Celsius(over 1000 for steels) with all the contractions and problems this creates. Any manufacturer could use metal in their products or cr…
The law is mostly about customer information. You'll still be able to buy cheap things if you want, but you'll know for how long it's repairable, hopefully long after the warranty period.
Re: France wants companies to make appliances that last longer
#38While good intentioned, I think the customer actually loses. Take the car industry for example. Quality control variance prior to the 90s (ballpark) was a huge issue, this a result from automakers just being cheap and but also the lack of modern statistical-based end of life testing/analysis. The gov't did have to step in: Lemon Laws. But a couple of automakers responded, produced cars that didn't fall apart, people…
I would be interested to see a tracking of the change of new car prices during that time. New car prices today are extraordinarily expensive, and from anecdotal experience, most consumers will only buy new cars through a loan. Surely, it wasn't always that way.
GMAC was founded in 1919 - it has always been that way.
Re: France wants companies to make appliances that last longer
#39I disagree with the common belief of planned obsolescence. In the industry the cheapest thing to make is plastic injection molding. By far. Like 50 to 100 times cheaper than the alternatives at scale. Melting plastic at 200 Celsius is so much easier than melting metal at over 700 Celsius(over 1000 for steels) with all the contractions and problems this creates. Any manufacturer could use metal in their products or cr…
While I agree with a lot of what you say, planned obsolescence does exist and IS a factor in many products breaking soon.
You might want to watch "The light bulb conspiracy": http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/light-bulb-conspiracy
Re: France wants companies to make appliances that last longer
#40Companies build the type of products people want. Right now people want cheap products for the most part. For those that don't certain brands exist that have very long or lifetime warranties.
Perhaps an issue is that people have expected that products will last beyond their warranties. The French proposal would seem to clarify the difference between a warranty and an expected lifetime, if there is indeed such a difference. My family lives in a house that was pretty much empty of appliances when we bought it, ~ 12 years ago. I'm extremely lucky to be handy at repairing things (thanks to my parents), but ap…
I think too many people here are focusing on consumer electronics and in your example i found what I expect the French law is also about: white appliances.
We actually don't buy fridges and dishwashers expecting them to last 3-5 years (or at least we shouldn't). But many of these things have a lifespan far shorter than we expect given today's automated manufacturing and quality control and that everyone involved should be a specialist (design, engineering etc).
These types of household appliances should be better. But I also think that in Europe recycling of appliances is now a political issue big enough to warrant a "what are we going to do with all of these mobile phones?" law.