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Plan 9 from Bell Labs

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Re: Plan 9 from Bell Labs

#51

Can someone explain why Plan 9 matters? I mean this legitimately. How is this differentiated from yet another flavor of *nix? I'm sure it was hot shit back in the early 90s, but I don't see much of an appeal other than as a curiosity like OS/2.

First of all: Plan 9 is not another flavor of nix. If you expect it to be like Unix, you will* have a bad time.

With that said:

* All services are network-enabled file servers speaking a common protocol called 9P.

* UI makes heavy use of mouse chording, is inspired by Oberon and old school Smalltalk environments. Supports seamless interaction through an inter-application messaging mechanism called plumber (e.g. you can write a rule that will make all ISBN numbers in a desktop application automatically act as a hyperlink to a web application).

* The rc shell fixes a lot of deficiencies in the Bourne shell.

* Per-process namespaces obsolete a whole lot of things like symlinks.

* There is no superuser (root account). This is obsoleted by an auth server called Factotum.

* Uses its own compiler suite that makes cross-compilation particularly easy, compared to the mess of doing so with GCC. It also uses its own much cleaner libc routines that are quite distinct from POSIX or the messy glibc additions of today. Has its own thread library, as well.

* All network information is held in a text file database mounted on a file server.

* The default file system (Venti) is inherently versioned, introspectable and has backup built into it. You can do things like swap in libraries from cache and revert changes without a hitch.

* Everything is statically linked.

* Uses mk instead of make.

* A lot of things like recursive copy and find aren't built into the standard commands. It's expected you actually chain together commands instead of reinventing the wheel for every single operation. The canonical example is the use of du to walk the file system tree, for everything. This replaces find and other things.

* Designed not just to be multi-user, but multi-tenant. Makes many uses for containers and access controls unneeded because of its core design.

* So much more.

Try it. It's more relevant now than ever.

Re: Plan 9 from Bell Labs

#52
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With such fun utilities as... bullshit(1) (print out a stream of bullshit) feminize(1) (replace sexist remarks) theo(1) (print out insults from Theo de Raadt) troll(1) (automated trolling) # same as theo(1) it looks like derp looks useful.

Things like that they should call it stormfront instead of plan9front.

[deleted]

Re: Plan 9 from Bell Labs

#53
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rust? Don't you mean go?

Go? Don't you mean Elixir?

While we could keep playing language-of-the-week-golf -- the go compiler is born from the plan9 c-compiler, and the go designer(s) had a hand in designing plan9. So my comment wasn't quite meant as just a popular-language-x-quip. Plan9 reborn in gopher clothing actually has some merit.

(Not that plan9 in rust wouldn't have merit -- I wonder, post Rust 1.0, if someone ends up writing a full OS, starting with Rust and as much assembler as needed -- if it would make sense to mix go and rust for some of the user-space -- or if it'd make more sense to just stick with Rust).

Re: Plan 9 from Bell Labs

#54
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With such fun utilities as... bullshit(1) (print out a stream of bullshit) feminize(1) (replace sexist remarks) theo(1) (print out insults from Theo de Raadt) troll(1) (automated trolling) # same as theo(1) it looks like derp looks useful.

Things like that they should call it stormfront instead of plan9front.

https://imgur.com/JOJM79p

Re: Plan 9 from Bell Labs

#55
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With such fun utilities as... bullshit(1) (print out a stream of bullshit) feminize(1) (replace sexist remarks) theo(1) (print out insults from Theo de Raadt) troll(1) (automated trolling) # same as theo(1) it looks like derp looks useful.

Things like that they should call it stormfront instead of plan9front.

Troll(1) works without even running it

Re: Plan 9 from Bell Labs

#56

I love how decent of a chunk Github's code identifier seems to think is Javascript. On a related note, has Plan9 been rewritten in Javascript yet, and if not, why are you slacking?!

The filesystem on jor1k was implemented using 9P.

http://s-macke.github.io/jor1k/

Re: Plan 9 from Bell Labs

#57
post #4

As an interface designer Plan9 have always fascinated me yet I found it incredible hard to find many other designers who were into it's concepts. I always loved the "everything is an object" approach and in a better world this not NeXT or Windows would be our underlying principle.

OS/2 Presentation Manager and SOM tried it.

Oberon also had quite nice concepts, specially version 3 with Gadgets.

Re: Plan 9 from Bell Labs

#59
post #12
post #3

Has anyone used Plan-9 have feedback on running it?

You can check my other comments for more, but a couple of old-time UNIX folk I know described it as being dropped into a bare X11 environment with twm, a flint knife, and the Acme editor. Acme is amazing, but the whole thing uses mouse chording and requires a 3-button mouse, so it requires a lot of getting used to if you're newer to computers than, say, 1990. In general, Plan9 delivers on being "a better UNIX" in ter…

> Acme is amazing, but the whole thing uses mouse chording and requires a 3-button mouse, so it requires a lot of getting used to if you're newer to computers than, say, 1990.

That is based on how Oberon UI works, which then again is based on Mesa/Cedar at Xerox PARC.

Re: Plan 9 from Bell Labs

#60
post #23
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can check my other comments for more, but a couple of old-time UNIX folk I know described it as being dropped into a bare X11 environment with twm, a flint knife, and the Acme editor. Acme is amazing, but the whole thing uses mouse chording and requires a 3-button mouse, so it requires a lot of getting used to if you're newer to computers than, say, 1990. In general, Plan9 delivers on being "a better UNIX" in ter…

Relevant SSH bashing: http://harmful.cat-v.org/software/ssh :)

So what is Plan9's alternative to SSH? SSL seems even worse than SSH in terms of algorithms that you have to negotiate, and thanks to misconfigurations you can end up in a situation with no shared ciphers (if server accepts only RC4 and client rejects RC4 for example).

Maybe tinyssh could qualify as an alternative...

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