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Windows 10 will come with a command-line package manager

extremetech.com

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Re: Windows 10 will come with a command-line package manager

#51

Post by wfjackson »

SwellJoe wrote: post #32
alyx wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I take it you're not familiar with Windows Server...

It's been nearly a decade since I managed any Windows servers. I'm more than willing to believe there are features of modern Windows systems that I don't know about. Perhaps you can fill me in on what I've been missing...I assume you're implying there is some equivalent to yum or apt-get on Windows that allows easily updating system and third-party packages from the command line without human intervention? And, do mo…

I've thankfully never seen a Windows Server with Flash, Reader, iTunes or VirtualBox installed, sounds like a security nightmare waiting to happen regardless updates.

I also see lots of insecure and outdated applications running on Linux servers, especially Wordpress, Drupal, myphpadmin, cPanel etc. Heartbleed and Shellshock themselves are still not patched in a good percentage of servers.

Re: Windows 10 will come with a command-line package manager

#52

Post by cwyers »

dragonwriter wrote: post #48
cwyers wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Windows used to have those things. Windows 8 was where they removed it. I believe the official answer nowadays is "run a Unix using Hyper-V."

Well, no, they didn't remove it; its been a separate component for a long time, and with Windows 8 they restricted it to Windows 8 Enterprise and Server 2012. (Though I think the Windows 7 version can actually be used in Windows 8.)

It's deprecated in Windows Server 2012:

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/hh831568.aspx

I believe it was removed with 2012 R2.

Re: Windows 10 will come with a command-line package manager

#53

Post by wfjackson »

cperciva wrote: post #35
robomartin wrote: post #21

If Windows 10 was built on top of Linux I'd get a lot more excited. I have to use Windows for the myriad of engineering tools that are not available under any other OS, for example, SolidWorks, Altium Designer, various embedded toolsets, etc. And, while I've been using PC's (and Macs and Linux) since they came on the scene I hate, hate, hate the DOS or technically DOS-like underbelly of the beast. I know it is a ridi…

If Windows 10 was built on top of Linux I'd get a lot more excited. GPL would make that impossible. There are reasons OS X is based on BSD, and not all of them are about technical superiority.

WebOS and Jolla had/have a ton of closed source components(pretty much the whole GUI) but run on top of Linux so there's a loophole somehere.

Re: Windows 10 will come with a command-line package manager

#54

Post by arjie »

Fantastic. It'd be great if it would integrate with the Store. I'm guessing that even if it supports dependency resolution, most packages will just be monolithic blobs like currently. That does have its advantages, so it'll be interesting to see if people switch to specifying dependencies instead of bundling them.

Re: Windows 10 will come with a command-line package manager

#55

Post by ANTSANTS »

dragonwriter wrote: post #43
ANTSANTS wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The APIs may be annoying (HWND, NULL, NULL, NULL, NULL, NULL, DWORD_PTR dwcsprcadrswtfbbq, NULL, ...) but that backwards compatibility you're suggesting they do away with is pretty much the best thing about Windows. I got so fucking sick of the desktop Linux people constantly breaking everything on foppery and whim that I went back to Windows 7+mingw, and while Stallman would be ashamed of me, I have to say that it's…

Being built on Linux as GP suggested doesn't mean its just Linux -- presumably you'd implementing Windows APIs on top of Linux. Think WINE, but without the disadvantage of having to be done by third parties. Though a more likely way, were Microsoft to want to bridge that gap, would be to have a solid first-party POSIX environment on top of Windows, rather than the other way around.

Why? What's the point? NT isn't bad at all, it's just different from POSIX (hell, I can't believe the irony of this statement, but I'm glad that Microsoft is still around to resist the POSIX monoculture). Neither Microsoft nor the Free Software™ world would gain much from killing the NT kernel, but the latter camp would gain so much more from learning the lessons that made Windows so successful 20 goddamned years after the fact. It's so sad hearing Linus passionately say "you do not break binary compatibility in the kernel" then watching people on the outside flagrantly disregard this concept time and time again.

Re: Windows 10 will come with a command-line package manager

#56

Post by mahmud »

andrewstuart2 wrote: post #38
joenathan wrote: post #26

This will be a great way to automate Java and Flash updates, so users don't have play uncheck the adware every time there's an update.

install-package java --defaults > Installing: > Java > Ask.com toolbar > Ask.com rootkit

More like

  C: \>  instpkg32.exe /DefaultSettings:ALL_DEFAULTS
  C: \>
Cryptically named command with verbose arguments, that then goes on to fire a GUI window that requires manual intervention: that's the Microsoft way.

Re: Windows 10 will come with a command-line package manager

#57

Post by zaroth »

mahmud wrote: post #56
andrewstuart2 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

install-package java --defaults > Installing: > Java > Ask.com toolbar > Ask.com rootkit

More like C: \> instpkg32.exe /DefaultSettings:ALL_DEFAULTS C: \> Cryptically named command with verbose arguments, that then goes on to fire a GUI window that requires manual intervention: that's the Microsoft way.

Not Any More, so we're told. I hope they prove it.

Re: Windows 10 will come with a command-line package manager

#58

Post by ANTSANTS »

msie wrote: post #41
olegbl wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh, I haven't done that since Vista.

I have a really hard time believing that.

Popular installer packages include the "you should restart your computer now" dialog purely as boilerplate, you almost never actually need to do so. This is yet another sad case where the "power users" realized something was a non-issue years and years ago, but the platform holders couldn't properly communicate the fact to the public.

Re: Windows 10 will come with a command-line package manager

#59

Post by oblio »

cbd1984 wrote: post #50
craigvn wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, Microsoft the minnow company nobody heard of.

IBM's the same way. Doesn't mean it will forever be relevant beyond a small niche.

You'd be amazed how big that small niche is. Quite a lot of people like .NET development.

Re: Windows 10 will come with a command-line package manager

#60

Post by stingraycharles »

Eyas wrote: post #39
lsiebert wrote: post #22

So does it do dependency management? That to me is essential in a real package management tool.

The release notes here ( https://github.com/OneGet/oneget/blob/master/release-notes.m... ) show a few mentions of defining and getting dependencies. I'm going to guess the answer is 'yes'.

Dependency management is more than 'defining and getting dependencies'. What if package X relies on version 1 of package A, and and package Y relies on version 2 of package A. Will they work together, each in an isolated sandbox, or will you have dependency conflicts?

Package management is a really difficult problem to solve, which linux package managers have barely been able to solve. In addition to this, each programming language usually has its own package manager again, which vary a lot in quality.

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